Thursday, July 2, 2009

請別叫我「阿兜仔」! (smile...)


請別叫我「阿兜仔」!

READ the original article in ENGLISH here in the Taipei Times, sister newspaper of the Liberty Times, on May 19, 2009. It is about 1500 words, and includes much more information than that short article that appeared in the Liberty Times on July 8th.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2009/05/19/2003443960



by Biko Lang

A POLL OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE SAYS:

Editor's note: Readers may remember an article that freelance
reporter Biko Lang in Taipei Times on May 19, 2009, which has been translated
now for the Liberty Times. After the article appeared, a poll was taken by a local
marketing firm in Taipei based on the article, and the results are, if
not conclusive, nevertheless very interesting.


The online poll was conducted by a TNS Taiwan, a Taipei marketing
firm, from May 22 to May 24, with about 25,000 Taiwanese people
participating, and with several
questions being asked.

When those polled were asked "Do you use the term 'adoah' to refer to
Caucasians?"
the results were as follows: 45% said
they do use the
term while 55% said they do not use the term.



When people were asked "If you learned that this term of adoah was considered
offensive by some Westerners living in Taiwan, would you
stop using it?" the results were as follows:

93% said they would no
longer use the word "adoah" while 7% said they would continue to use
it.


In the poll, the total sample
size was 25,276 respondents, distributed in terms of age and gender
proportionately to the general population, with ages ranging from 13
to 64, according to the polling firm.




大多數的台灣人認為 :「阿兜仔」這個稱呼外國人的暱稱是熱情且友善的。但許多住在台灣工作的西方人卻認為,那是一個侮辱和不尊敬的詞句,不應該出現在公眾場合,電視節目和廣告應該要禁止使用這三個字。你同意嗎?
阿兜仔」的意思是指「大鼻子的人」,無論你對這三個字的俚語詞有什麼感覺,請你用你的幽默感來閱讀此篇文章。
日本人、馬來西亞人、印尼人、印度人、非洲人、越南人或菲律賓人,都沒有使用類似「阿兜仔」的名詞來稱呼西方人。
郭冠英在他匿名所寫的文章中提到「台巴子」及「倭寇」,許多台灣人很生氣,但是多數台灣人卻認為「阿兜仔」沒有侮辱的意思,並無不妥。例如輔仁大學歷史系教授陳君愷在一封電子郵件中寫到:大多數的台灣人相信「阿兜仔」是幽默的詞語。但是如果大部分在台灣的西方人討厭這樣的形容,那麼台灣人就不應該在繼續使用這個詞語來形容西方人,特別是在公眾場合及電視媒體上。吳宗憲先生,請問您看到這篇文章了嗎?
那麼這是我給讀者的問題:「阿兜仔」是否是臺灣人應該繼續使用的詞,或是應該捨棄不用呢?
無論是否同意我的看法,我非常有興趣了解你的看法與回應。(作者本名 Dan Bloom,為美籍資深新聞從業人員。翻譯者Shirley Tu

http://pcofftherails101.blogspot.com/2009/06/is-this-good-word-or-bad-word.html

COMMENTS WELCOME: ---------------------------------------------------------------

A Taiwanese reader of this blog, a woman, 35, Buddhist, tells me:

"You point out a very important issue here. That is 99% of Western people, including you, in Taiwan dislike and hate the term. And most of Taiwanese people don’t even sense that problem including me.

People use it because they think it’s harmless and even a cute way of expression.

But they will stop using it if they know you don’t feel comfortable with that.

I think most of the people will disagree about “ADOAH” is a mean or bad word, but they will agree that they should stop using the word if it makes you feel offended.



I am sorry that this is bothering you but this term is rarely used by people nowadays and mostly used by elders who speak Taiwanese.



But what’s the impression on Taiwanese people about foreigners at early time? And why they have a special term for them, I think maybe people started to use it at the time right after Japanese colony and during the period when US army came to Taiwan. In fact, I don’t know exactly and not familiar with that part of history of Taiwan, I am just curious and try to find some clues via internet.



I found a thesis about” U.S. Army under the Rest and Recuperation Program” -- R and R -- with a picture as attached: The picture was published by Time magazine on Dec. 22, 1967 and taken from a hot springs hotel in Taipei county. The soldier’s name is Alley Bailey, 21 years old from Cincinnati. It introduced that there are 75 spring hotels in Taipei County. I am pretty shocked by this photo which shows part of the history of Taiwan. Probably American soldiers made such impression on Taiwanese people at that time, and that’s why people called them “ADOAH”.



So, here is my observation,..... Taiwanese tend to use “A-XXX-AH” to call people who are from other country. This expression is mixed with a feeling of *teasing, *banter and even *hostile, anyway, not in a friendly manner.



As you know, we privately call Chinese people “A-LA-AH” recently as well. Also, I have ever heard people call Japanese people “A-BUN-AH”.

* A LA AH : LA means “mainland China”

* A DO AH : DO means “tall, stiff nose”

* A BUN AH : BUN means “Japan”



There is nothing wrong with the middle words, but the AH sound is the distinction of this way of expression. Do you see now?

I think, to a certain degree, those foreigners are the invaders to Taiwanese people whether it was a truly invasion or the invasion of cultural or economic.



As you also know Taiwanese people used to call Dutch people “Un-Mo” (red hair). So let’s make a list for these terms in the order of the eras below.

1.Dutch colony :
Un-Mo – no longer used in Taiwan

2. Japanese colonial period :
A-BUN-AH – rarely used now

3. US army stationed :
A-DO-AH – seldom used now

4. Chinese tourist group :
A-LA-AH – a new term used recently in 2009



Now I think you are right......“A-DO-AH .....was not a friendly word to foreigners in the very beginning, and as time goes by, people don’t know why the term came from or for what reason. You can’t really tell from the meaning of the word itself sometimes. I believe each special term has its unique background and story.



This is just an idea from my own thought, maybe it is not correct, but it is good to help me thinking things deeply and know more history about my country."

----------------------

An AMERICAN RESIDENT OF TAIWAN TOLD ME TODAY:

Dear Sir,

Looks like you stirred the pot for sure with this discussion online;

a lot of responses and with such detail.

My Taiwanese wife said she did not feel there is a racial slur with the word ''adoah''.


==================

Yes, today a student at CCu in Chiayi told me, re the same thing you said:

"Dear Sir

No, I don't think the Taiwanese readers will be angry about what you
wrote about adoah, if you publish that article in Apple Daily or the
Liberty Times or UDN or the China Times in Chinese.....
There are always some misunderstandings between two different
cultures, and if we never clearify these things, there might be more
people who agitate others and never understand why people seems angry
about that........
Thus I think it will be good if you publish it on the newspaper........

But I think you still need to notice the way you wrote, make sure the
readers won't misunderstand what you want to say.
Especially the following paragraph,

雖然許多台灣人被批評郭冠英,前行政院新聞局派駐多倫多台北經濟文化代表處新聞組長,

在他以匿名所寫的文章中提到 “台巴子”及”倭寇”兩詞.

多數台灣人仍然認為使用”阿兜仔”這個詞語來形容西方人並無不妥.


in this part, 倭寇 means pirates and 巴子 means foreigners who come from
rural area and wear or talk "improperly"(like a country bumpkin or
yokel, like a redneck),
both of these words are used with really bad attempt to humiliate
people. If you are trying to make an analogy between 倭寇,台巴子 and ADOAH,
be careful...because..Some people might not agree with this.
Especially you are mentioning thing about politics, it is a sensitive
issue for Taiwanese people.

Hope these suggestions are helpful."

====================================

TAIPEI TIMES article, May 19, 2009:

'Adoah': A demonstration of familiarity or an insult?

'PROMINENT' OR 'HIGH': While most Taiwanese think 'adoah' is a humorous word used to refer to Westerners, some believe it is a little insulting and insensitive and should be avoided in public and forbidden on the airwaves

By [Biko Lang]
CONTRIBUTING REPORTER

Tuesday, May 19, 2009, Page 4

“Taiwanese people are not as sensitive as Westerners to some terms associated with a person’s body, such as weight or height or the eyes. Some Taiwanese also feel uncomfortable when they are called ‘fat’ or ‘short’ or ‘small eyes,’ but in general, Taiwanese are not so sensitive.”

— Liu Yu-hsia, editor of Taiwan Tribune in New Jersey, USA

{This article was addressed to foreign residents of Taiwan. The Liberty Times letter to the editor on July 8 was addressed to Taiwanese nationals in Taiwan and overseas. -- Biko Lang)

BEGINS HERE:

Are you an adoah? And do you like being called adoah by friends, co-workers or complete strangers on the street? And maybe even by your wife or husband?

Whatever your feelings about this colorful and humorous Taiwanese slang word for “foreigner,” read the following with a sense of humor.

Although the term is used to mean a “foreigner,” it is mainly used to refer to Westerners. Japanese are never called adoah, nor are Indonesians, Indians, Vietnamese or Filipinos.

While many Taiwanese academics and politicians have been critical of Kuo Kuan-ying (郭冠英), a former government press officer in Toronto who was fired for using such words as taibazi (台巴子,Taiwanese rednecks) and wokou (倭寇, Japanese pirates) in blog posts written under a pen name, most Taiwanese still feel it is okay to use the word adoah to describe Westerners.

But some people feel that the word adoah rankles and should be avoided in public and forbidden on the airwaves.

Over the last few years, a few expat Internet forums have discussed the expression, with both supportive and scornful reviews and plenty of humorous rejoinders.

‘DOK-DOK’

One popular opinion is that the expression means “prominent nose” and comes from an old Taiwanese term — dok-dok — meaning “prominent” or “high” when describing noses.

Most Taiwanese say the term is not a slur or an insult, but more of a compliment than anything else, although delivered with a dollop of humor.

Some expats feel that while 60 years ago adoah might have been a humorous and friendly word for Westerners with a “high” nose bridge, people, especially TV hosts such as Jacky Wu (吳宗憲) who use the term on TV shows with abandon, should drop the word.

Chen Chun-kai (陳君愷), a professor of history at Fujen Catholic University, said in an e-mail: “Although most Taiwanese truly think adoah is a humorous word, if most Western foreigners in Taiwan hate that word ... then that word is no doubt a bad word and should not be used anymore by our people.”

Chen added: “Confucius said: ‘Do not do unto others what you would not want others to do unto you.’ So if we Taiwanese don’t like to hear Mainlanders calling us taibazi, then Taiwanese should stop using that word adoah in reference to Westerners. There is no need to keep using the word adoah anymore, if those who hear the word don’t like it.”

“We Taiwanese are still crippled by a long history of linguistic and ethnic slurs, even now. We need to fight for our freedom and establish a new nation with justice. If we can achieve this, I believe that we will also learn more from people in other countries,” Chen said.


Another professor, Chi Chun-chieh (紀駿傑), who teaches in the Department of Indigenous Cultures at National Dong Hwa University, said by e-mail: “I must admit that I never thought that adoah was a bad or negative term, and I am sure that people here use it as merely a humorous word and not in any negative sense at all.”

“However, and this is important, this common usage does not mean that adoah is a good term, even though it is not used in a negative or pejorative way,” Chi said.

“The most important thing about language when it is used to refer to different national or ethnic or racial groups are the subjective feelings of people being addressed,” Chi said.

“In terms of the word adoah as it is used to speak about or address Westerners in Taiwan ... the shape of a person’s nose is not relevant compared to his or her more important personal characteristics,” he said.


Martin de Jonge, a Canadian who has lived in Taiwan for more than a dozen years, pointed out another way of looking at the issue.

“As I come from a country where the government has a long history of crafting, launching, tracking, monitoring, refashioning and relaunching information campaigns designed to facilitate intercultural understanding by informing, sensitizing and enlightening its various cultural groups, I sometimes take it for granted that obvious social dysfunction here in Taiwan should iron itself out in due process and in due time time by the local [Chinese-language] media and through public statements from leaders,” Jonge said.

SENSITIVITY

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has lived abroad since 1992, Liu Yu-hsia (劉玉霞), the Taiwanese editor of the Taiwan Tribune in New Jersey, a newspaper for Taiwanese expatriates, said: “It’s been many years that I have not heard this term adoah. I used it when I was little. I agree with you. Adoah is a little insulting and insensitive from an American’s viewpoint. It is just like calling somebody ‘fat.’ However, when Taiwanese call a Westerner adoah, it is not meant to insult the person.”

“But the point is, if the person being addressed or spoken of doesn’t like the term, then it shouldn’t be used,” Liu added.

“Taiwanese people are not as sensitive as Westerners to some terms associated with a person’s body, such as weight or height or the eyes. Some Taiwanese also feel uncomfortable when they are called ‘fat’ or ‘short’ or ‘small eyes,’ but in general, Taiwanese are not so sensitive,” she said.

“The next time someone refers to you as an adoah, tell him or her, seriously, that you don’t like to be described in that way. I believe that person will not do it anymore,” she said.

When asked if Taiwanese expats in the US ever call their neighbors adoah, Liu replied: “We usually don’t, because there are so many adoah here. Sometimes we call them laowai, but we forget that the actual foreigners are us.”


The jury is still out on whether the word adoah serves a useful purpose today or not. The real judges will be the Taiwanese themselves.

142 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

about the article, i seldom use the word ADOAH. i just call my foreign friend's name.
but "Adoah" doesn't mean we are laughing at foreigners, it just a way for us to call
these foreigners who lives here. actually, we think it's a humor way to have a connect with
them , but some of foreigners doesn't think so.

no matter what, taiwanese are always friendly and easy to get along with, but if foreigners
don't like to be called"Adoah", then we shouldn't say it.

-- Amy in Taipei, 20 years old

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

YES YES YES... I forget this part. I am SORRY. I should not have treated your concerns about the word ADOAH so lightly. It IS a serious topic, and it's good for us Taiwanese to discuss, too.

This is the problem of all human being : always easy to ignore the negative part from themselves.and they should not responsible for others.

You are really a smart and brilliant "ADOAH". hehe.
But it's humorous, the topic here, because it contain something BIG and something SMALL at the same time.


Signed,

Medical Doctor in Taipei,

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

As a Caucasian man in Taipei, I have never felt that the word "a-dok-ah" is malicious or derogatory.
In fact, as some of your readers have pointed out, it refers to what
historically was perceived by locals as, if anything, an attractive
physical characteristic -- a "sculpted" nose. It could be positive or
negative depending on the speaker's subjective impression of
"Westerners", rather like calling a blond person "sandy" or blondie
may carry positive, neutral, or slightly derisory connotations
depending on who is using it and who is hearing it. "A-dok-ah" is
definitely slang, however, and therefore tends to be used in a "lower
register" of speech and writing, such as in tabloid journalism
articles addressing the behavior (or misbehavior -- since tabloids
tend to focus on misbehavior rather than model behavior) of
westerners residing in Taiwan. Over time, this may increasingly give
the term negative connotations that it did not originally carry.

I believe the tendency of people to group others by physical
appearance was an evolutionarily useful trait that arose over millions
of years but that in the modern highly populated world no longer
serves a mainly positive purpose but rather tends to give rise to
negative phenomena such as racism and sexism. I feel that a thinking
person should be wary of this pervasive human tendency, but at the
same time should not be overly sensitive to its more benign and not
maliciously intended manifestations. Also, I think that racial
stereotyping is still fairly prevalent in Taiwan, and is more widely
accepted in Taiwan than in many places. This is partly because the
population is more homogeneous in appearance that in a place like
Paris or New York, and so different physical appearances tend to stand
out more. And though I would consider it a negative tendency in any
society, it tends to be relatively benign here. (Cultural stereotyping
is a more malicious problem than racial stereotyping in Taiwan I
think.)

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for these articles and letters from readers about ADOAH word usage in Taiwan. It is very interesting, and I am also surpised that many Taiwanese do not realize they discriminate against foreigners (Philipino maids/''Maria'' and mainland brides/''DaLumei'').

Best regards,

_____________

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

I am sorry, but I cannot agree with this lady.

First of all, when I first told my colleagues about this A-DO-AH issue, almost, I really
meant almost everyone answered me right away that they did know that ''DO'' means someone with a
big and tall nose. It was my lacking of common-sense not to know the real
meaning. Most people do know that it means big and tall nose.

And, also, sir, they told me that we shouldn't think it an ironic word for ''foreign people''.

It
may not be very, very polite, but it's not impolite.

You can easily find
people who go thru plastic surgery to enlarge their noses. People like to
have big noses, at least here in Taiwan.

To call Japanese people ''A-Bun-Ah'' or to call people from China ''A-La-Ah'' is
nothing but colloquial, especially among elder Taiwanese people who are
mostly lower-educated.

I am sure, in southern Taiwan where you live and work, you can see how ''down-to-earth'' these people are and also how ''rude''
they are soemtimes in their language usage. And I am sure you won't hear too much ''A-Do-Ah'' from younger people.

Simply feel like sharing my feelings with you.

Regards,
___________



Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

Yes, there are some complex and fertile issues here for sure. Good
luck with this exploartion of Taiwan's cultural linguistic history.....

Signed

_________

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

You should do a TV talk show on this topic. Everyone has an opinion. Maybe Dr Shieh the former GIO director, rapper, with his own TV talk show now, can do it.

Sgined,
____

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

You should do a TV talk show on this topic. Everyone has an opinion. Maybe Dr Shieh the former GIO director, rapper, with his own TV talk show now, can do it.

Sgined,
____

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir

Yes a TV talk show on this topic would be good. I think they or someone would go for it. Even that woman who had been a man.

It is humorous and yet also serious, a good topic.

Signed

_______

Anonymous said...

Yes, today a student at CCu in Chiayi told me

"Dear Sir

No, I don't think the Taiwanese readers will be angry about what you
wrote about adoah, if you publish that article in Apple Daily or the
Liberty Times or UDN or the China Times in Chinese.....
There are always some misunderstandings between two different
cultures, and if we never clearify these things, there might be more
people who agitate others and never understand why people seems angry
about that........
Thus I think it will be good if you publish it on the newspaper........

But I think you still need to notice the way you wrote, make sure the
readers won't misunderstand what you want to say.
Especially the following paragraph,

雖然許多台灣人被批評郭冠英,前行政院新聞局派駐多倫多台北經濟文化代表處新聞組長,

在他以匿名所寫的文章中提到 “台巴子”及”倭寇”兩詞.

多數台灣人仍然認為使用”阿兜仔”這個詞語來形容西方人並無不妥.

in this part, 倭寇 means pirates and 巴子 means foreigners who come from
rural area and wear or talk "improperly"(like a country bumpkin or
yokel, like a redneck),
both of these words are used with really bad attempt to humiliate
people. If you are trying to make an analogy between 倭寇,台巴子 and ADOAH,
be careful...because..Some people might not agree with this.
Especially you are mentioning thing about politics, it is a sensitive
issue for Taiwanese people.

Hope these suggestions are helpful."

Anonymous said...

A Taiwanese gentleman in USA says:

It is like ''yankee'' for american. not bad, just a slang (meaning that caucasians have a remarkbale nose - tall and good shape..."

dan said...

A Taiwanese man in California emails me from UC Berkley to say:

"I don't say ADOAH myself, but that term could be dated back to 1950 when a lot of US troops stayed in Taiwan - people just had no knowledge of Caucasians. They didn't mean it. They just don't know. "

dan said...

When a veteran USA journalist who has spent many years in Taiwan was asked this question, does the word ADOAH annoy or bother you at all, he, a white Caucasian said:

"Yes, the word ADOAH does bother me, and annoy me, when I hear it on TV or read it in the papers, or hear it said of myself. Why? It shows bigotry, in my opinion."

Anonymous said...

"It does not mean big nose - it is TALL nose. Orientals are jealous of people with tall nose because it looks exotically beautiful."

-- a Taiwanese reader in USA of this blog today

dan said...

Finally, the truth comes out , from a Taiwanese grad student in the USA who says:

"I admit that ADOAH is not completely a compliment. You are right, part of it was joke, against tall nosed Americans, but without ill intentions, i promise you."

Anonymous said...

A Taiwanese blogger tells me in all candor,

"You are right, ADOAH is not such a good word, it is a bit unkind to you guys. But to use it is a joke. but not really a compliment. But i think we need some time to amend this historical mistake."

Anonymous said...

THIS JUST IN:

A Taiwanes man in the USA, who has been follwing this discussion and admits that ADOAH is not a very good word in today's world to use in Taiwan says:

"Don't worry. we Taiwanese have everything but guts - your article about ''ADOAH -- PRO OR CON -- GOOD OR BAD WROD?'' will be fine if it is published in the newspapers in Chinese there, and I hope this could invoke some consciences in my fellow countrymen. "

Anonymous said...

An exchange of emails between two Westerners in Taiwan:

-----------------

MR. A


July 2009


"Perhaps I should have wrote “mildly” annoying in my remarks about how i view the word ADOAH when I hear it, because on the reverse, most foreigners and minorities are treated much worse in the United States than Caucasians are treated in Taiwan. I find it mildly annoying as I certainly don’t lose any sleep or get mad that it would ruin my day.

I guess the annoyance comes the way the word is delivered: in this case it seems to be mostly for the amusement of the person saying it. I don’t consider it a term of endearment like others say it is when I’m cycling and someone yells it as they are driving by on a scooter or in a car or by someone who calls me it after we’ve passed each other while walking. If it is a term of endearment the speaker probably wouldn’t be laughing hysterically with friends.

I’m used to calling people I don’t know Sir, Ms, Miss, young man, or young lady depending on the person’s age and gender the disappointment and annoyance comes because this isn’t reciprocal.

Like you said, nothing gonna change, either way."

---------------- REPLY------ BELOW---

Anonymous said...

Mr B replied to MR A above:

"Very good perspective on this, Mr. A., and yes, nothing’s gonna change on this, and there’s no need to change. It’s their country, it’s their language, so I am cool with it. But from a cultural point of view, yes, it’s not a bad word like wop, guinea, wetback, kike, kraut, frog and all the other words the English language has created for minorities…..ADOAH is positively LOVELY, compared to any of those, you are right, and that’s a good POV to keep in mind all the time. I agree.

YOu really hit the nail on the head here: “I guess the annoyance comes the way the word is delivered: in this case it seems to be mostly for the amusement of the person saying it.”

EXACTLY! Good way to put it. The word exists for the amusement of the Taiwanese who say it and hear it, and it works well that way, and for a purpose, too. It was not really created to compliment TALL NOSES, it was created to give the speakers and hearers of the word a good quiet simple laff. And it works. For them. So I don’t want to take that away from them.

But……the sound of that word when WE hear it is not one of amusement. That’s the problem. They love it, because it’s part of their culture, and we don’t really like it so much, because we did not grow up using that word and it’s a bit off-putting to our ears, once we know the original meaning of it the term. As one reporter told me today, when i told him of your “annoying” remark: “It’s annoying to me because it reeks of bigotry.” He said that, not me. Bigotry? That’s a strong word. I think it reeks mostly of amusement from the POV of the speaker. It’s a code word that we were never meant to understand or hear. In 1950s and 60s when it was first coined, during US soldier time here, the word WAS funny and clever and cool and amusing, from the local POV. I agree. I can get into it that way. I love humor.

The problem comes today when there are more and more Westerners here, some even married to local women, God forbid, so should the word ADOAH still be bandied about on the Jacky Wu show and other TV shows, and news shows too, whenever a Caucasian arrested for drunk walking in Taipei or Kenting, the reporter always calls them adoah, and the news print also calls them adoah, and to the locals, it’s FUNNY. It’s a great word for the Taiwanese.

But maybe it is time for people to start to reconsider that word. Today I heard from a Taiwnese grad student at Berkley in USA and he was very honest with me. He told me this, in a series of very honest emails, the first time a Taiwanese every admitted this to me:

He started out by saying:

“It is like ”yankee” for american. not bad, just a slang (meaning that caucasians have a remarkbale nose – tall and good shape…”

But then he noted:

“I don’t say ADOAH myself, but that term could be dated back to 1950s when a lot of US troops stayed in Taiwan – people just had no knowledge of Caucasians. They didn’t mean it. They just don’t know. ”

Then he added:

“It does not mean big nose – it is TALL nose. Orientals are jealous of people with tall nose because it looks exotically beautiful.”

Finally, after more prodding he tells the truth:

“I admit that ADOAH is not completely a compliment. You are right, part of it was joke, against tall nosed Americans, but without ill intentions, i promise you.”

He added more:

“You are right, ADOAH is not such a good word, it is a bit unkind to you guys. But to use it is a joke. but not really a compliment. But i think we need some time to amend this historical mistake.”

And then he says:

“Don’t worry. we Taiwanese have everything but guts – your article about ”ADOAH — PRO OR CON — GOOD OR BAD WROD?” will be fine if it is published in the newspapers in Chinese there, and I hope this could invoke some consciences in my fellow countrymen. ”

Dan says now to Mr A: Who knew? Go figure. (I have no idea where this is heading but it’s interesting, if nothing else.)

Anonymous said...

AND THEN MR B SAYS TO ME A, in conclusion:

RE: your remark :

“….I don’t consider it a term of endearment — like others say it is — when I’m cycling and someone yells it as they are driving by on a scooter or in a car or by someone who calls me it after we’ve passed each other while walking. If it is a term of endearment, the speaker probably wouldn’t be laughing hysterically with friends.”

This is what Taiwanese people themselves have to think about and reconsider about this word. I do believe that is NOT a term of endearment, and also NOT an insult or a slur, just a COMIC way to refer to white people that is very FUNNY to Taiwanese speakers of the word (and those friends who also are in on the joke, the code word, haha), but it is NOT so funny to use. Still, not an insult and not a slur.

So how to resolve this issue? NEVER. People will still be saying ADOAH a hundred years from now……..SMILE!

And why not? It’s their country, it’s their language.

Still, some brave academic or newspaper editor might come along one day and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, FOLKS. WE NEED TO RETIRE THIS WORD ADOAH and start calling our white friends WAH GOH LANG, or WAH GOAH.

But I am not going to hold my breath!"

Claudia Jean said...

Hi Dan, sorry I just saw your message. As it's been extensively discussed, I just share some of my thoughts here if that's OK.

I know it means 'big and tall nose'. I don't know when this term started but there may have been an element of making fun of someone trying to be funny and humorous, not necessarily said with hostility. I do know that, not knowing how to show affections, friendliness or concerns properly, some Taiwanese make fun of others as a away of making connections or showing closeness. It's less so now, or I hope it is.

I got the sense that nowadays Taiwanese don't mean anything nasty or negative when they use this term and it's become quite neutral and therefore don't see a problem using this term.

One underlying cultural difference may be that it's acceptable in the Taiwanese culture to mention or comment on others' physical features to the person's face but this is not the case in the West. Say if I've put on some weight, my British friends are likely to say nothing or say 'You look well' but Taiwanese friends (or those from the Far East) are more likely to directly tell me what it actually is.

In any case, one should not use it if the other person doesn't like being called ADOAH however friendly or well meaning they may be. We call someone what they wish to be called.

I would like to respond to someone's comment on people in 'southern Taiwan'. It's interesting to see someone quickly attribute it to the North/South divide. I don't want to give examples of what I've actually heard or experienced but lets just say that there are rude/nice people everywhere and there's no need to be down on the southern Taiwanese. Those in northern Taiwan are not necessarily better. They are just different.

dan said...

Hi Claudia Jean,

Thanks for your good post and I appreciate your coming here and posting. All your points are well taken, and you explain it all very well.

I am sure you are right, the word today, as spoken by Taiwanese people, NOT an insult or a slur, just a relic of an earlier comic/humorous word that maybe first surfaced when USA soldiers came here in 1960s or maybe even earlier when first missionaries came here, like Mr McKay and others. And from the point of view of Taiwanese people, at that time, first encoutering people from the West with different nose shapes, the word makes sense and served a purpose. And it still serves a purpose, from the point of view of Taiwanese people, who enjoy usint the still-comic word on TV -- Jacky Wu uses it all the time, he even called me an adaoh to my face one time in Chiayi at a CD signing event he was doing -- and I said, Jacky Wu, I am not an adoah, I am wei guo ren, please don't call me that, but I don't think he heard me or understood me. SMILE -- so for Taiwanese people to use the word, even today, it makes sense, it serves a purpose, it's part of their vocabulary, and if I was Taiwanese i would probably use it too, in a cute funny kuso kind of way.

The problem comes from the other side, those of us from the Wesetern cultures who know the meaning of the word and really don't like people calling out to us "ADAOH ADOAH!" when we walk down the street. It happens every day, 5 times a day. Really. And we don't mind, but we love Taiwan!

BUT....maybe if many Westerners don't really like the word now, and prefer to be called WAH GOH LANG in Taiwanese or Wei Guo Len in Chinese, maybe it's time for Taiwanese people to stop using adoah on TV and in newspapers and in public on the streets and even when Western husbands visit their Taiwanese inlaws on Chinese New Year for a week and everyone refers to the foreign husband as ADOAH, and he hates being called that term all week. Read the forumosa.com forums to see how many Western men hate that term!

But I don't know the answer. The word has a history. You like the word. Some of us don't like the sound of it. What to do?

I don't know. But the more we discuss this like this, maybe in 50 years the word will disappear. Then again, maybe in 100 years it will still be around.

It's up to the Taiwanese people to decide about this. I'm not complaining. Just investigating the source of the word. I enjoy every moment on this blessed island nation of 23 million wonderful people! Every day in paradise here!

As for those remarks by that Apple Daily editor about the north/south divide on this, I agree, he way off base there. His attitiude was typical Taipei-centric POV and he was wrong wrong wrong. But interesting to hear what he said. He also told me APPLE DAILY would never report on this ADOAH issue because they do not consider it important or relevant to life in Taiwan.

Case closed?

Thanks for your good remarks, and love your blog, too.

dan

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir, says a British woman who just spent a year in Taiwan:

''Just got round to reading your article and some of the comments. To be honest, I've never noticed being called adoah, though I'm sure I have been. Such terms don't usually bother me. One of the comments explained it in terms of the Taiwanese language, it being the easiest word to describe foreigners and if it was not used anymore a similar term like the Mandarin waiguoren will supplant it so why not just keep using the Taiwanese word? (I'm a supporter of preserving the Taiwanese language.) The main point is, like many people have pointed out, the culture is different in Taiwan; such terms aren't meant in a derogatory way so I do not think they should be taken in such a way. If it was derogatory I would be against its use. Since its not, I can't help but ask why we (foreigners) should put our cultural/social/etiquette standards on the Taiwanese? We are living in their domain, not the other way around. We should accept that it is just a descriptive term and label and not take it to heart.
Personally, I am much more annoyed as always being labelled an American as if the only western country is the USA. I find this a lot more narrow minded and irritating than a broad term like adoah!

Anyway, thats my generally opinion, its an interesting discussion. Must admit that my reaction also depends on my mood! Occasionally such terms shouted out at me really bug me, haha.

Now I'm back in London ..."

Anonymous said...

Please don't call me ADOAH anymore!

by ''Biko Lang''

LIBERTY TIMES, July 8, 2009

Most people in Taiwan think ADOAH is a cute and warm word for foreigner ....the name is warm and friendly. But
some westerners who works in Taiwan actually
believe that is the word and phrase is sort of mischievous and an benign insult and does not
respect, should not appear in the public situation, the television
program and the advertisement should probably forbid to use these
three characters.

Do You agree? “ADOAH the meaning is
refers to “big nose's person”, regardless of you have to these three
character's he word are assorted the feeling, asks you to use your
sense of humor to read this article.

The Japanese, Malaysian, the
Indonesian, the Indian, the African, the Vietnamese or the Filipino,
do not have the use is similar ADOAH word as the noun
to call the westerner.

Guo Guanying in the anonymous writes in the
article mentioned that “the Taiwan rednecks” and “the Japanese
pirates”, many Taiwan people are angry very much, but the most Taiwan
people actually think ADOAH is okay.... and not an insult
meaning, and not improper.

For example Furen University history
department Professor Chen writes in an email: ''The majority
Taiwan people feels ADOAH is the humorous
words and expressions. But if the majority of Wesetern peopple dislikes such describing in
Taiwan's westerner, then the Taiwan people should not in continue to
use this words and expressions to describe the westerner, specially in
the public situation and on television media."

Mr. Jacky Wu ..Wu Zongxian...., are YOU reading this article?

So I want to ask you the readers of the Liberty Times: about ADOAH, is it a word which the
Taiwan people should continue to use, or perhaps should discard and does not
use anymore after 2009?

Whether regardless you agree with my view, I really would like to know your view and your personal response.


(author given name Dan Bloom,
is the American nationality senior news jobholders. Translator Shirley
Tu)

Anonymous said...

A tri-lingual Taiwanese man, 28, who spent many years in an African country with his family on business there, told me:


"i do not agree that people should call others with names related to their appearance. you are right to bring up this issue."

Anonymous said...

You are right, if a term used to describe a group of people makes that group feels uncomfortable, then it should not be used.

However, I would also like to explain the following:

1. "A" in Taiwanese is often used to show intimacy, as grandpa and grandma are refer to as A-Gong, and A-Ma.

2. "Do" does not mean 'big nose;" rather, it means a tall pointy nose as antonym to "flat nose," which is the characteristics of East Asians.

After the above explanation, if you are still feel offended, then you need to explain to people who use the term, and let them understand even though they mean no disrespect, they should not use a term that make people feel uncomfortable.

Anonymous said...

ADOAH simply means you got a HIGH, instead of big, nose, which is distinctively different from the LOW nose of most Asian people.

Actually, I believe many Taiwanese women performed the plastic surgery simply to get their nose looking higher, or looking more like ADOAH's nose. It's a word used to admire your good looking and shouldn't be treated with contempt.

Anonymous said...

Do You agree? “ADOAH the meaning is
refers to “big nose's person”, regardless of you have to these three
character's he word are assorted the feeling, asks you to use your
sense of humor to read this article.
-------------------------------------
Anyone with some knowledge of the Taiwanese language would disagree with this kind of interpretation.

As I already pointed out, ADOAH simply means a person with a high nose, in particular, a westerner. It has absolute no intention to debase any person being called that way.

If you misunderstood the language and made such a complaint based on an ill-interpreted term, then I would respectfully ask you to make a clarification on the newspaper, so that people here won't feel insulted as you did when you understood the word in the wrong way.

Eric said...

Dear Sir:
I'm a Taiwanese immigrant currently living in California, U.S.

First I admit that I, and all my Taiwanese friends never knew "Adoah" means tall-nose person. We simply thought it means "foreigner"

Second, to my understanding, tall-nose in Taiwanese culture is actually a compliment. We consider tall-nose as a symbol of handsome and beautiful (probably due to the fact that most of us don't have one), so we kind of admire those who have tall noses. In fact many Asian pop stars had surgeries in order to have bigger, taller noses.

But again, I do agree that if this "Adoah" word make you and other people feel uncomfortable in any way, then we should stop using it due to respect.

Best Regards,

Eric

Hiankun said...

I would like to give some corrections about one of the previous comment, and all the Taiwanese terms used will be written in POJ which has mostly been used by Presbyterian churches.

>>1.Dutch colony :
>>Un-Mo – no longer used in Taiwan
Sould be Ang-mng or Ang-mou. This term is still known in Taiwan but not very common, because there is very few occasions to use it.

>>2. Japanese colonial period :
>>A-BUN-AH – rarely used now
A-pun-a, a bit of contemptuous usage. A worse term is 小日本 in Chinese, means ``little, not great Japanese.'' Another rarely used term today is 日本鬼子, a very very bad term, which is in Chinese and means ``Japanese devils.''

>>3. US army stationed :
>>A-DO-AH – seldom used now
A-tok-a. The word ``tok'' in Taiwanese means something, especially the nose, is straight and stiff. This term has the most neutral meaning among all the terms we have seen so far.

>>4. Chinese tourist group :
>>A-LA-AH – a new term used recently in 2009
A-lak-a. This term has been used before 2009, but become more popular these years. The word ``lak'' means also ``land'' and ``six'' which have the same pronunciation. So sometimes you will find they are written in Han characters as ``阿六(six)仔'' instead of ``阿陸(land)仔.''

When people use A-lak-a, they often use it with contemptuous meaning.
----------------------------
The usage of ``a-*-a'' in Taiwanese is somehow complicated, and it is not only used for referring to foreigners. For example, a-me-a (阿妹仔) means your younger sisters or little girls. Also, a-ti-a (阿弟仔) means younger brother or more often, little boys. These are very neutral and daily-life usages.

Taiwanese use ``a'' after many terms, some for friendliness or closer relationship, but some for contemptuous or even insulting purposes.

The term A-tok-a is almost neutral today, and this term is really an ``embedded'' one in Taiwanese. If white westerners could understand that Taiwanese don't use this term with negative meaning, then everything might be okay. But if they still don't like this term used upon them, then I believe most people will pay attention to and avoid using it.

Anonymous said...

My dad doesn't like to be called Adoah and my sister and I feel that my father is being insulted sometimes, especially once when a man on the street wouldn't stop yelling Adoah. I think it also depends on the way people say it, because the man's facial expression annoyed us too. He seemed to be teasing our dad, and insulting him, because he was smiling and laughing in what seemed like a mean way.

VHuang said...

Execuse me…but when did “阿兜仔” become a negative word for “big nose?” To me, “阿兜仔” is nothing but a friendly nickname for those westerners who have high nose-bridges and pointed nose-tips. A trait that is common to the westerners and is much admired and envied by the mostly flat-nosed easterners. The sound of “兜” means “Pointed”.
Whoever mis-guided Mr. Biko Lang by translating “阿兜仔” into “big nose”, thus injecting a sense of negativity, should do Mr. Lang a favor of correcting his/her own mistakes.

Anonymous said...

阿兜仔 意 有高挺鼻子的人,我媽常說 我像阿兜仔我還真高興 那麼多人想要隆鼻 你就知道好或不好

MichaelCorleone said...

我原本並不認為「阿兜仔」有歧視或不尊重的意味。但是只要被稱呼的人覺得不舒服,就應該避免使用。

以前黑名單工作室的歌曲「台北帝國」裡面,有一句「阿兜仔阿兜仔阿里阿豆~」,甚是有趣。

dan said...

ALL these comments are very good, and I am glad we are having this discussion. I really just want people to think about words and language, and discuss this issue of adaoh, pro and con. So keep the comments coming here, in Chinese and in English. I am not taking sides on this issue, I am just trying to LISTEN to everyone. You are my teachers on this. Thanks.

-- Biko Lang

Anonymous said...

CJ, a Taiwanese woman, told me today by email:

"Thanks for sending me this link. I've pasted the link to one of my comments on the website.

I tentatively drew a parallel (which may or may not be fitting) and asked Taiwanese readers to think - we don't want to be called Chinese and it won't change if someone explains that they don't mean anything nasty and just think Taiwanese physically look Chinese.

As Taiwanese would correct others when being called Chinese, then perhaps we should also listen more carefully to what others have to say about the way(s) they are called by some of us and rethink some of the words we use."

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko Lang,

I like your pen name. thank you for sending me the message. Wow... it is a surprise to me it seems people think this topic is interesting and they also think it seriously. This is good and I do enjoy reading all the comments from different people anyway.

Sign me

Ruby, a native Taiwanese

Anonymous said...

阿兜仔 意 有高挺鼻子的人,我媽常說 我像阿兜仔我還真高興 那麼多人想要隆鼻 你就知道好或不好

Biko said...

Dear Biko,


語言是一種流行或是約定俗成的東西 也就是說同樣一個語辭隨著時間空間的變動 他的含意並非一成不變 他的真正意涵必須視他的前後文才能得出真正的語意 而且每一個人對同一個語辭的語意掌握也並非一模一樣 這也是為什麼語意會隨著時空而改變的原因之一 這是所有語言文字的特性之一


你提到吳宗憲 個人以為他是俏皮的意思居多 沒有歧視或俾視的意思 只是刻意拿一些過去存在但是現在年輕的一代已經不知道的東西 藉以突顯他的特色罷了 試想主持人如果正經八百誰會喜歡這個節目啊 個人以為到哪一國都是一樣的 中國有一句話形容戲曲 叫做打諢插科 如果莎翁所做的戲劇中沒有這些元素 那就不可能成為偉大的戲劇


事實上現在已經很少人會用這個字眼 因為不知道意思


宣告可以提醒對方或是使用者 但是效果有限 就像韓國駐台灣的代表處前幾年也發表聲明說希望台灣人不要稱他們是南韓 但是效果有限 因為只稱韓國不知道你指的是哪一個韓國


又像台灣不是台灣的正式國名 但是卻是唯一能夠傳達台灣人特性的一個名詞 我們如果一直用chinese 聽話或是看到的人的直接解讀一定是China(PRC) 當然更不可能是ROC 但是可笑的是如郭冠英之輩以及所有的中國人卻會大聲抗議說自認為台灣人的就是數典忘祖去中國化 邀脫離中國


相同的美國人在兩百年前幾乎以英國人為主體 但是從什麼時候開始英國人已經在美洲大陸消失了取而代之的是美國人或是美洲人或北美洲人 但是如果要追根究底美洲人是印地安人才對啊 但是可能還是有人反對 認為印地安人也是從別的地方移居到北美洲的 所以真要講是講不清楚的 只能以一種善解的立場 針對說話聽話當時的情境解讀


又像很久以來就有美語American 和英語English之分 在美國沒有人會說他說的是英語English 但是在加拿大還是English與French沒有Canadian 在澳洲只有English而沒有Austrailian 一切都是約定俗成 都是流行


你舉其他國家沒有人用這個辭 但是他們一定也有其他的不正式名稱統稱外國人 因為不可能看到外國人都知道他是哪一國人而用正式的國籍稱呼


你舉郭冠英所用的台八子與倭寇 會引起那麼大的反彈並不是單獨的台八子與倭寇 而是他整篇文章前後所表達的意思


美語或英語 也有很粗俗的口頭禪 像中文一樣 但是我們不會一聽到這種粗俗的語言就不舒服或是勃然大怒 一定會依據當時的情境去解讀對方所說的語言 是從好朋友口中講出來的都是表示更親近的意思 從仇人口中講出來的同樣一個辭或是一句話解讀就全然不同


個人以為每一個文化的語言原元素都一樣的 越正式 就越無趣 也越不傳神


歡迎你 也感謝你希歡台灣 也感謝你對台灣的愛護 也更希望你快樂的生活在台灣 該正經的時候正經 該輕鬆的時候不彷輕鬆一點


以上是個人的小意見 希望對你有幫助 僅供參考


- from

nick

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko,

So the battle is waged. I think it is a good thing. Taiwanese are not very sensitive to anatomic descriptions of others, traditionally.

[By the way, I remember a famous brand toothpaste (I don't know if it still on sale now there), called "Black People Tooth Paste" or "Negro Tooth Paste" 黑人齒膏. It's logo showed a black person with bright teeth. When I was young in Taiwan, I, and my friends, never gave it a second thought. Apparently, the brand with its logo worked very well; it was the most popular tooth paste.]

Since I arrived in the US in 1973, working in a NYC hospital in the Bronx. I was fascinated with all these different kinds of people -- African Americans, Hispanics, Jews, Caucasians (Anglo-Saxons, Germanics, Slavics, Italians, etc.), Asians (Indians, Koreans, Phillippinos, Chinese, Singaporians (both Chinese and Indian), Taiwanese, etc., etc.

Then I realized that everyone has his/her own sensitivities about their ethnicity and appearance. I quickly learned to respect others' feelings. I knew how it felt when I was mistaken as a "Chinese" (since I am NOT CHinese, I am TAIWANESE!).

In Taiwan, there is just not many varieties of people , and Taiwanese in general just don't think of these sensitivity issues very often. But they are good people. I love my homeland!

So, I think I should thank you for raising this issue in public. Taiwan, a small island with little natural resources, can survive only if it connects with the world at large.

It is time for Taiwanese to learn to respect others anatomic differences, even if ''A-Doh-Ah'' really is a affectionate word and contains no negative meanings.

Keep me posted.

Signed,

- A Taiwanese patriot living in the USA for a long long time

Anonymous said...

Hello Bikolang,

From your mail address, I can tell that you are an American. To us, we can never tell which country the westerner is coming from, so we just describe them Adoah, and this is used to describe a foreigner or a group of foreigners (mostly white westerners) only in Taiwanese conversation. There is no bad meaning at all. When we know he or she is from USA or England, we would use Bikoah, or Enkoah.

Anyhow, I assume that you are learning Taiwanese or at least staying with some of Taiwanese friends here. The point is that it seems to me that you have a misunderstanding of this description of westerner used in Taiwanese conversation. It is a common noun to describe westerners not a name for any westerner. Either your Taiwanese friends are too young to explain you so, or they mislead you to feel bad about it. Please take it easy. If there is any bad meaning, we would get a war first from African whom we describe "OhLang" (black man)..G

Daniel, aged 49

oldyork said...

你好,「阿兜仔」的意思應該是指「鼻子高挺的人,在我(台灣人)的認知裡,被說鼻子很「兜」是很值得高興的,在一般的審美觀中,鼻子高挺才是好看,所以並不是所有的外國人都被稱「阿兜仔」,應該只有歐美人才常被稱「阿兜仔」,我想是因為歐美人的鼻子高挺才有的稱號,應無戲謔或貶低之意。

Anonymous said...

from BIKO LANG to:

Dear Daniel, aged 49, above post:

That was a very good comments and thank you sir. I like your first name very much! Yes, I come from the USA, and am learning Chinese and Taiwanese, and even some Hakka too. But mostly, everything is just BUSASA to me.

I really enjoy my life in Taiwan, Daniel age 49 -- and Biko Lang is age 60 -- and everyday is paradise here for me. I love Taiwan, and I hope you understand, I am NOT complaining here about ADOAH word. I am just trying to find the truth about the meaning and history and origin of the word, as a student of Taiwanese culture, and YOU are my teacher here, so keep teaching me. I KNOW that adoah is a term of endearment, and believe me, I hear the word 10 times a day here, always said in a positive way. So I agree, relax and enjoy life. I drink a bottle of Taiwan Beer every night, over side dishes of cho dofu and pig blood soup. So keep teaching me Dear Daniel age 49, from Dear Biko Lang, age 60, who loves Taiwan, loves the Taiwanese people, and understands the HUMOR of the word ADOAH, and its warmth and intimate meaning, too. I have never met a Taiwanese who doesn't like me. And I have never met a Taiwanese I haven't liked. This is a great country, with great people!

As a journalist, that is what I am, I just want to explore the history and meaning of ADOAH as a term. It is also true that some Westerners here do not like to becalled ADOAH on TV and in the newspapers and even face to face when children walk by on the street and point at us and say "Mommy, look, adoah! adoah!"

Imagine how that feels! SMILE.

But we know the kids and adults are just being friendly and curious. So I don't mind....

Signed

Biko Lang, aged 60

Anonymous said...

非!話要說起三十年前的故事了,
大鼻子:是以前中國國民黨要台灣人叫蘇俄(蘇聯Soviet)人,有仇視的味道,因為以前說要反共抗俄(蘇俄大鼻子),殺朱拔毛。
阿凸仔:是指鼻子尖尖的人,以前美軍協防台灣,很多美國人在街上,不同於台灣人的比較扁闊的鼻子,所以台灣人叫他們阿凸仔,沒有扁低的意思,但有些joke,或稱讚別人有美好挺的鼻子!
當然現在已沒有這回事了!不反共抗俄殺朱拔毛,稱老美了!
I think you can get somebody translation for you.

Anonymous said...

當老外不再用Chink、Negro類似這些字的字眼時

再來要求別人吧?

某種程度上

語言本身就是文化歷史的縮影

台灣是這樣

中國是這樣

先進的西方國家也是這樣

所以三小「遠東」、「近東」這種鳥詞才會出現

「阿兜仔」、「老歐阿」甚至「大陸妹」咱也是用得很開心

當然

站在「和諧」的觀點,這些詞當然少用為妙
但站在本人充滿偏激自私主觀的「本土觀點」

我只想跟你這位「外國友人」說:

「干你屁事!!!」

先管好自己的國家人民再來別人的地盤說三道四不遲

Anonymous said...

When the foreigner no longer uses ''Chink'', ''Negro'' to be similar these characters the phrase Requests others again? In some kind of degree The language is in itself the cultural history miniature Taiwan is this China is this The advanced western nation is also this Therefore three will be small “the Far East”, “Near East” this kind of bird word only then to appear “the Arab League pocket young”, “Lao Ou Arab League” even “the mainland younger sister” we are also use very much happily Certainly Stands “harmoniously” in the viewpoint, these words certainly little use to wonderfully, but stands in myself fills extremely selfish subjective “the native place viewpoint”

I only want “the foreign friend” BIKO LANG to say to your this: “does your trifling thing!!!”

Manages well own national people to come others' domain first to say this and that not lately again

dan said...

re: ABOVE:

"I think you can get somebody translation for you. "

THE translation machine tells Biko Lang that:

"...The words must mention there is a 30 year ago story, big nose: Is the beforehand KMT Kuomintang party wants the Taiwan people to call USSR Soviet Russia (Soviet Soviet) the human, has the hostility flavor, because before said that wants the anti-communism to resist Russia (the Soviet Russian big nose), kills Zhu to pluck hairs. Arab League raised young: Refers to the nose point point's person, before the US military association guards against Taiwan, many Americans on the street, are different with Taiwan people's quite flat extravagant nose, therefore the Taiwan people are called them the Arab League raised young, does not have the flat low meaning, but some joke, or commended that others have the happy nose very! Certainly now already not this matter! The anti-communism does not resist Russia to kill Zhu to pluck hairs, said that old was beautiful!"

Thanks for this interesting comment, sir!

-- Biko Lang

Anonymous said...

A blog at the United Daily News has this post:

http://city.udn.com/52340/3517994

Anonymous said...

2. Good Article

發言人:. 2009-07-08 07:32:00

To describe some people by calling them BIG NOSER
is a form of INSULT and DISCRIMINATION.
Stop ! Stop !

Many phrases in Taiwan's languages are absolutely LOW CLASS and FILTHY.
Need to be chagned and ERADICATED.

For example:
DON'T call WASHROOM a SHIT HOUSE
DON'T LET SHIT ! in public places
DON'T LET URINE! on diner table
DO NOT EAT SHIT from that FILTHY PENISE in the AGE OF GLOBAL VISION

Anonymous said...

1. 「阿凸仔」意謂著「鼻子堅挺的人」
發言人:想太多了! 2009-07-08 07:29:36

''差很大耶!
「鼻子堅挺的人」並不等於「大鼻子的人」,真是差很大耶!
台語也是需要去了解的,可不是嗎?!''

Anonymous said...

13. 治安敗壞,這是什麼世界
發言人:媒體寵溺馬英九 2009-07-08 18:13:59

媒體寵溺馬英九

新竹孝子被亂棒打死

老公買消夜遭黑槍擊斃,

騎車健身會遭吹箭偷襲,

現在,在鬧市開間銀樓為生,

也會有凶猛搶匪上門、砰砰兩槍奪命,

這是什麼世界?

媒體更體貼入微到幾近寵溺。

王卓鈞所領導的八萬警察大軍,

只有在陳雲林來訪時虎虎生風,

在保護人民生命財產方面,

卻顯得軟弱無能,

把遊行老翁撞成植物人,

迄今不了了之,

至於警紀敗壞,

更是不堪,

有兩線一星警官

集體販毒的、

有包庇電玩收賄的、

有逼姦下屬老婆的……

難怪「警風日下」矣!

回應本篇

Anonymous said...

12. 到時候死了人,又要怪政府之前沒有趕走他們嗎?
發言人:---- 2009-07-08 11:23:44

有點常識的都知道行水區不能住人....
不然到時候淹水的時候....要政府怎麼救那麼多住在那裏的人....
到時候死了人,又要怪政府之前沒有趕走他們嗎?
回應本篇 ▲TOP

11. 阿凸仔不是大鼻子
發言人:chang 2009-07-08 11:13:18

這位先生的台語不知是誰教的?阿凸仔的凸不是這個漢字凸,阿禿也不是大鼻之意而是高挺鼻子之意.現代人多希望自己有像外國人一樣的鼻子啊!這個名詞覺無歧視之意,盼望這位鼻子高挺的先生在下筆之前先能做一下功課.
回應本篇 ▲TOP


10. 一個不把原住民當人看的外來政權, 老是提原住民.
發言人:_:_:_ 2009-07-08 10:03:35

何必如此矯情? 外來的支那族群, 心裡有原住民嗎? 沒有吧, 溪洲部落, 三鷹部落, 溪濱部落...... 都被主政的外來政權給拆毀了, 說好聽是為了河川水土居民安全, 其實是為了趕走原住民, 讓原住民走投無路, 接下來便可以官商圖利勾結, 河川改道, 興建遊樂休憩設施, 使土地增值, 一切為了錢.

國民黨這些外來族群, 就為了利益而已, 每逢選舉就搬幾十箱米酒到部落去給原住民喝的酩酊大醉, 然後選票就全數包辦了, 說到米酒, 最近米酒降價, 是不是因為選舉又要到了, 如果太貴, 國民黨候選人買不起, 無法再以米酒買票, 所以趕快降價! 所以我說國民黨這個外來政黨真是賊一樣的政黨.

國民黨過去以來, 一直在做一件人神共憤的事, 就是誘騙原住民少女下山來從事性交易, 國民黨外來族群自己當起龜公, 讓原住民少女出賣皮肉, 外來族群則是負責收錢中飽私壤, 夠無恥下流的, 那麼喜歡幹這一行, 何不叫自己的妻子與女兒去賺皮肉錢?
回應本篇 ▲TOP

dan said...

7. A tribute to BiKo Lang D B
發言人:. 2009-07-08 08:07:18

''You out to write many more
articles such as this.
People of Taiwan apprecate it.''

回應本篇 ▲TOP

BIKO LANG SAYS: "THANK YOU. I WILL.

Anonymous said...

4. Quality of Language
發言人:. 2009-07-08 07:39:19

''The quality of language reflects the quality of the
people who created it.

There are many FILTHY and LOW CLASS phrases in Taiwan Languages

Be civilized !''

Anonymous said...

5. RELEASE SHIT ?
發言人:. 2009-07-08 07:43:11

Not LET
You know what I meant

》Good Article
》發言人:.
To describe some people by calling them BIG NOSER
is a form of INSULT and DISCRIMINATION.
Stop ! Stop !

Many phrases in Taiwan's languages are absolutely LOW CLASS and FILTHY.
Need to be chagned and ERADICATED.

For example:
DON'T call WASHROOM a SHIT HOUSE
DON'T LET SHIT ! in public places
DON'T LET URINE! on diner table
DO NOT EAT SHIT from that FILTHY PENISE in the AGE OF GLOBAL VISION
回應本篇 ▲TOP

Anonymous said...

12. 到時候死了人,又要怪政府之前沒有趕走他們嗎?
發言人:---- 2009-07-08 11:23:44


有點常識的都知道行水區不能住人....
不然到時候淹水的時候....要政府怎麼救那麼多住在那裏的人....
到時候死了人,又要怪政府之前沒有趕走他們嗎?
回應本篇 ▲TOP

11. 阿凸仔不是大鼻子
發言人:chang 2009-07-08 11:13:18

這位先生的台語不知是誰教的?阿凸仔的凸不是這個漢字凸,阿禿也不是大鼻之意而是高挺鼻子之意.現代人多希望自己有像外國人一樣的鼻子啊!這個名詞覺無歧視之意,盼望這位鼻子高挺的先生在下筆之前先能做一下功課.
回應本篇 ▲TOP

10. 一個不把原住民當人看的外來政權, 老是提原住民.
發言人:_:_:_ 2009-07-08 10:03:35

何必如此矯情? 外來的支那族群, 心裡有原住民嗎? 沒有吧, 溪洲部落, 三鷹部落, 溪濱部落...... 都被主政的外來政權給拆毀了, 說好聽是為了河川水土居民安全, 其實是為了趕走原住民, 讓原住民走投無路, 接下來便可以官商圖利勾結, 河川改道, 興建遊樂休憩設施, 使土地增值, 一切為了錢.

國民黨這些外來族群, 就為了利益而已, 每逢選舉就搬幾十箱米酒到部落去給原住民喝的酩酊大醉, 然後選票就全數包辦了, 說到米酒, 最近米酒降價, 是不是因為選舉又要到了, 如果太貴, 國民黨候選人買不起, 無法再以米酒買票, 所以趕快降價! 所以我說國民黨這個外來政黨真是賊一樣的政黨.

國民黨過去以來, 一直在做一件人神共憤的事, 就是誘騙原住民少女下山來從事性交易, 國民黨外來族群自己當起龜公, 讓原住民少女出賣皮肉, 外來族群則是負責收錢中飽私壤, 夠無恥下流的, 那麼喜歡幹這一行, 何不叫自己的妻子與女兒去賺皮肉錢?
回應本篇 ▲TOP

9. 霧社事件
發言人:莫那鲁道的傳令兵 2009-07-08 10:02:38

新疆發生萬名 與漢族互毆暴動事件,死傷不斷擴大。但是與台灣原住民相比,維吾爾族是幸運的多多 .
被台灣河洛人尊奉為「開臺聖王」的鄭成功父子之開發台灣,報復、追勦、屠殺平埔族,不分首從,不論有罪無罪,一律撲殺,
七十多年前日據時代,霧社事件導火線是因為日本人夥同台灣河洛人走狗的對原住民婦女性騷擾及暴力相向, 因此霧社事件原住民勇士不但殺日本人, 也殺台灣河洛人走狗. 日本人去封山殺原住民時帶頭的台灣河洛人就是現在綠營支持者的祖先.
霧社起義http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDlLjv38XA
1930年10月7日殺死日本人134名 漢奸6名。 日本殖民統治者得知霧社起義消息後,立即從各地調來軍隊予以鎮壓。 日軍對高山族同胞施放毒氣,起義人員死傷較多。 高山族同胞撤至山林,利用熟悉的地形,與日軍展開游擊戰。 日軍死傷半數。 在這種形勢下,日軍改變對策,施展誘降手段,鼓動起義隊伍的家屬前去勸說。 此招不靈,日軍惱羞成怒,對不屈的山民發動了更加瘋狂的進攻。 日軍動用大砲、催淚彈和毒氣彈,致使起義民眾大部死亡,完全失去了抵抗能力,起義失敗。
  霧社高山族同胞總人口不過2100人,在這次起義中900餘人戰死或自殺。 1931年,殖民當局利用高山族內部的分裂,用借刀殺人方式,挑起高山族內部仇殺,製造了第二次霧社事件。
http://www.taiwanus.net/history/4/43.htm
二十一世紀 民進黨官員要求原住民立委助理陪酒划拳甚至慘遭暴力相向與性騷擾!原住民立委陳瑩證實,花東縱谷國家風景區管理處處長民進黨廖源隆曾酒醉鬧事,不但要求她的兩位助理陪酒,助理不從竟然出手打耳光,事後更不斷伸出鹹豬手,她當場制止,廖源隆卻視若無睹。她要求嚴辦,以杜絕公務人員騷擾助理的歪風。陳瑩立委女助理遭民進黨官員要求陪酒划拳 甚至慘遭暴力相向與性騷擾!

回應本篇 ▲TOP

8. 中國人都慣稱大鼻子帝國洋人
發言人:bean 2009-07-08 08:38:15

台灣人叫阿「凸」仔與阿「扁」仔

同款是一種親切的稱呼

意思是說你真可愛啦~
回應本篇 ▲TOP



6. 無謂的誤解
發言人:又奈何 2009-07-08 07:45:13
往往台語需要使用「漢文」才足以表達意思,類似的語音假借,造成無謂的誤解,豈止「阿凸仔」三個字?!

回應本篇 ▲TOP

Anonymous said...

你好:

我從報上讀到這篇文章,深有所感。

先聲明:由於我對英文不熟悉,未免誤會,在此僅針對站內的中文內容作回應。



我很肯定「阿兜仔」一詞為中性的口語,一種非正式用詞、俚語。

若有所謂褒貶,則完全取決於使用者的態度,若有興趣查閱語言學,你會發現這種語言現象普遍存在於世上。



我對汙名化「阿兜仔」一詞感到不滿。

非正式不等於「少許欺辱和不敏銳、輕蔑、不正經」。

「阿兜仔」是俚語,它的確不適合用於正式場合,但他絕非是個髒字,更不是「巴子」、「倭寇」。





輔仁大學歷史系教授陳君楷把「阿兜仔」與「台巴子」劃上等號,是錯誤,而且錯的離譜。



陳教授儘管錯的離譜,但仍說對了一句話:

「我們臺灣現在仍然受到語言和種族詆譭長久歷史的影響。」

是的,就這句講的特別對,特別到位。

dan said...

A new POLL OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE SAYS:

[Editor's note: Readers may remember an article that freelance
reporter Biko Lang in Taipei Times on May 19, 2009, which has been translated
now for the Liberty Times on July 8. After the article appeared, a poll was taken by a local
marketing firm in Taipei based on the article, and the results are, if
not conclusive, nevertheless very interesting....]


The online poll was conducted by a TNS Taiwan, a Taipei marketing
firm, from May 22 to May 24, with about 25,000 Taiwanese people
participating, and with several
questions being asked.

When those polled were asked "Do you use the term 'adoah' to refer to
Caucasians?" the results were as follows: 45% said
they do use the
term while 55% said they do not use the term.


When people were asked "If you learned that this term of adoah was considered
offensive by some Westerners living in Taiwan, would you
stop using it?" the results were as follows:

93% said they would no
longer use the word "adoah" while 7% said they would continue to use
it.

In the poll, the total sample
size was 25,276 respondents, distributed in terms of age and gender
proportionately to the general population, with ages ranging from 13
to 64, according to the polling firm.

dan said...

A new POLL OF TAIWANESE PEOPLE SAYS:

[Editor's note: Readers may remember an article that freelance
reporter Biko Lang in Taipei Times on May 19, 2009, which has been translated
now for the Liberty Times on July 8. After the article appeared, a poll was taken by a local
marketing firm in Taipei based on the article, and the results are, if
not conclusive, nevertheless very interesting....]


The online poll was conducted by a TNS Taiwan, a Taipei marketing
firm, from May 22 to May 24, with about 25,000 Taiwanese people
participating, and with several
questions being asked.

When those polled were asked "Do you use the term 'adoah' to refer to
Caucasians?" the results were as follows: 45% said
they do use the
term while 55% said they do not use the term.


When people were asked "If you learned that this term of adoah was considered
offensive by some Westerners living in Taiwan, would you
stop using it?" the results were as follows:

93% said they would no
longer use the word "adoah" while 7% said they would continue to use
it.

In the poll, the total sample
size was 25,276 respondents, distributed in terms of age and gender
proportionately to the general population, with ages ranging from 13
to 64, according to the polling firm.

Anonymous said...

我來自南台灣─台南市。從小是使用「台語」長大的小孩。

在我年紀很小的時候,我在路上看到一些外國人,就跟我母親說:有阿度仔耶。

之後,我就問我媽:為什麼要叫阿度仔? (這裡的阿度仔等同於您說的阿凸仔)

我媽跟我解釋,那是「老人家傳下來的說法」。據說,早期台灣在荷蘭統治時,

看到荷蘭人鼻子都高高的,所以就叫他們「阿度仔」。

在傳統的台語當中,若是形容一個人的高鼻子,就會說:「度鼻」,也就是鼻子高高的。

因此,我對「阿度仔」這三個字的認知是:鼻子高高的人。

從小就這麼使用了,就如同您在文章中說的,真的不覺得有侮辱外國人的意思。

再者,由於我知道「度鼻」是形容高鼻子,更加不知會讓外國人會有侮辱的感覺。

以上,是我的想法。

dan said...

A western reader tells Biko LAng tonight:

"I think some of the arguments here in the comments section fail miserably. Imagine my grandmother, for example, saying "It's up to white people to decide whether the word 'nigger' is offensive." After all, she used the word in front of my black girlfriend and didn't mean anything negative by it -- that was just the word she grew up using. (That didn't stop me and my girlfriend from feeling offended.)

That was the sentiment of several comments I felt.

And another argument went something like this:

"If we don't call you 'adogah,' which physical feature should we focus on when talking about you?"

[Ed note: yes, always the physical features. Why not just someone "customer" or "person" or "patient" or "student" or "husband" or "patro" instead of the need for TALL NOSE CUSTOMERS like your tgif example earlier....BK]

Or "My assistant calls the kid 'Little Fatty,' so I should, too."

All very ignorant arguments, .....[said Biko Lang's friend from the USA who has been living in Taiwan for many many years and has a keen eye for good observations of the cultural kind.....]

Anonymous said...

I understand your objection to being lumped into a stereotype, but describing a person as having a tall nose, is really no different from calling someone black, middle eastern, or Asian. For Taiwanese people, it is simply a quick reference. "Tall nose" = "WASPy western guy". There is no malice whatsoever.

I will concede that the use of the suffix -AH is not entirely respectful. However, sometimes adding it is actually an endearing way to address people (especially in this case, since having a tall nose is considered beautiful in Tawanese culture).

Example:
Young fella - Shiao Lian Ah (Not
offensive huh?)
Young chicka - Go New Ah (I don't find that offensive either)

ADOAH is just a description, please don't read too much into it. Not everything has to cause an international outrage.

dan said...

Dear Just Now Anonymous Above,

RE: see my CAP LETTERS FOR MY COMMENTS. YOUR POST WAS VERY VERY GOOD AND I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAID AND THE WAY YOU SAID IT. YOU SHED NEW LIGHT ON ALL THIS, THANKS. MY COMMENTS TO YOU IN CAPS NOW and email if you wish at bikolang AT gmail DOT com, and I will respond, i am looking for real people to chat with about this, always politely. -- Biko L.

"I understand your objection to being lumped into a stereotype, but describing a person as having a tall nose, is really no different from calling someone black, middle eastern, or Asian.
I SEE. SO IS O-LANG A GOOD WORD FOR AFRICANS IN TAIWAN? YES OR NO. I AM NOT SURE. I HEARD O-LANG IS NOT VERY POLITE.

For Taiwanese people, it is simply a quick reference. TRUE AND A GOOD POINT. I AGREE.

"Tall nose" = "WASPy western guy". There is no malice whatsoever. I AGREE. REALLY. I FULLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT NO MALICE IS INTENDED WITH ADOAH. I DO UNDERSTAND. IT'S A CUTE WORD, FROM A TAIWANESE POINT OF VIEW. BUT I AM NOT SURE WESTERNERS UNDERSTAND THIS. SEE THE ANGRY DISCUSSION ON THIS WORD AT FORUMOSA.COM from 2005 or so..

I will concede that the use of the suffix -AH is not entirely respectful. REALLY? WHY IS THAT FINAL AH NOT ENTIRELY RESPECTFUL? THIS IS KEY, MAYBE?

However, sometimes adding it is actually an endearing way to address people (especially in this case, since having a tall nose is considered beautiful in Tawanese culture). YES I HAVE HEARD THAT TOO. IN FACT ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS IN TAIWAN A DEAR DEAR FRIEND WHO CALLS ME ADOAH IN PUBLIC HE INTRODUCED ME AT A PUBLIC FESTIVAL ONE DAY LAST YEAR THIS WAY, LATER HE TOLD ME THAT ADOAH IS A VERY AFFECTIONATE WAY TO TALK ABOUT A FOREIGNER YOU LIKE AND ADMIRE AND RESPECT. I FELT BETTER AFTER THAT....SMILE.....



ADOAH is just a description, please don't read too much into it. GOOD ADVICE! I KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT.

Not everything has to cause an international outrage. HAHA. HOPEFULLY THIS IS NOT BECOME AN INTL OUTRAGE. I HOPE THIS IS JUST FRIENDLY CHAT AMONG FRIENDS AND FAMILY. I AM LOOKING AT THIS MOSTLY FROM A CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGY POINT OF VIEW. I LOVE TAIWAN. I AM COMPLETELY EMBEDDED HERE. SMILE. NO COMPLAINTS AT ALL. AND MY LETTER TO LIBERTY TIMES ABOUT ADOAH IS NOT A COMPLAINT, IT IS QUESTION. WHAT THE HECK DOES ADOAH MEAN AND WHY DID JACKY WU CALL ME ADOAH TO MY FACE 8 YEARS AGO WHEN HE SAW ME IN THE PARK? "

文忠 said...

Mr.Dan Bloom
您好!
心地善良,而且又有優美語言的台灣人,怎麼也不會拿一個「話語」來侮辱外國人,
Mr. Dan Bloom您從事新聞工作,碰到台灣人的機會應該很多,他們不都是老實.善良.熱心.好客?您覺得呢?不曉得誰把「阿 啄仔」的「音」譯成「阿 凸仔」; 「阿 啄仔」的意思是鼻子尖挺的人,而不是大鼻子的人,您可能不知道多少台灣人,為了使自己變成「阿 啄仔」,而化錢去隆鼻。
我的大哥,從小,鼻子尖挺,鄰居都叫他為「阿 啄仔」,後來他的綽號演變成「hollo」外國人的意思.(因外國人的問候語是Hello!)
Mr. Dan Bloom「阿 啄仔」絕對沒有不雅或侮辱的意思,希望您能理解善意的台灣人

Biko said...

[A VERY GOOD LETTER TODAY -- Biko]
---it came by email to bikolang at gmail dot com, writeme there too.]

Hi Biko Lang,

I refer to your article on The Liberty Times "請別叫我「阿兜仔」!":
Actually, 「阿兜仔」means "High Nose", not "Big nose".

If you are in Taiwan for a long time and long enough, you shall know that most of Taiwanese (or Asian people) hope their noses are as beautiful as Western people.

"High nose" is a symble of beautiful, I don't understand why you think it as an insulting way from Taiwanese?

Or maybe you preferred to be called "Flat nose" just like American describe Asian in American movies "Chins"?

Do you know, in Singapore and Malaysia, they call Caucasian "Ang Mo", which means "Red Hair".


In Hong Kong, they call Caucasian "Guai Lao" which means more or less like "Ghost".

By the way, in case you don't know, China persons are calling Taiwanese as "Dai Bo", which means "Stupid people".

Signed

M., a Taiwanese woman

Biko said...

Dear 文忠 above post, you wrote to me and thanks. I understand your letter and thanks, and I do know that ADOAH is a good word, full of affection and warmth and even humor, and Westerners should NOT be offended by this word. But Westerners are offended, even though the word is a good word. So how can we solve this problem? I do not know. BUSASA!

You told me:

"Dear Mr.Dan Bloom hello!

Good-hearted, moreover also has the exquisite language Taiwan people, how will not take one “the words” to insult the foreigner, Mr. Dan Bloom you are engaged in the newspaper work, bumps into Taiwan people's opportunity to be many, they not are honest. Good. Warm-hearted. Hospitable? You think? Did not know who “Arab League calligraphy stroke young” “the sound” translates into “the Arab League raised young”; “Arab League calligraphy stroke young” the meaning is the nose point person very, but is not big nose's person, you possibly do not know how many Taiwan people, to cause itself to turn “the Arab League calligraphy stroke young”, but melts the money to go to the prosperous nose. My eldest brother, since childhood, nose point, the neighbor is called him is “the Arab League calligraphy stroke young”, afterward his nickname evolved “hollo” foreigner's meaning. (because foreigner's greetings are Hello!) Mr. Dan Bloom “Arab League calligraphy stroke young” 絕 to not inelegant or insult meaning, hoped you can understand the good intentions Taiwan people "

文忠 ..I DO UNDERSTAND THE GOOD INTENTIONS OF THE TAIWAN PEOPLE. I DO. I LOVE TAIWAN. I AM VERY HAPPY HERE.

CJ said...

其實許多外國朋友了解台灣人用這個詞時並無冒犯之意, 包括Dan在內, 但是還是不喜歡被稱呼[阿兜仔]. Dan很愛台灣, 長住在台灣, 更不是在抱怨台灣人. 只是告訴大家他的感受, 邀請大家跟他討論. 我不認為這是外國人對台灣語言的不了解或是打壓.

這裡有個文化差異也許台灣朋友可以試著了解思考. 目前西方文化是避免用[身體特徵]去稱呼或形容別人的. 過去有的這種類似字眼都在主流語言中漸漸改掉了. 這可能是為什麼這些外國朋友在了解這個詞的涵意之後, 還是不希望被叫[阿兜仔]的一個原因.

也許有些人覺得[阿兜仔]是羨慕稱讚外國朋友的高鼻子, 沒有不好的意思. 但對方如果不喜歡自己身體特徵被拿來當作稱呼, 也應該尊重, 不該認為說自己無意冒犯, 對方就不可以介意. 一般要是別人說話時無心傷害我們, 不表示我們心裡就不會不舒服, 就不會被冒犯. 這方面還是互相尊重一下, 不能完全用自己的想法.

而且人對五官跟身材的感受不是絕對的. 就算沒有開人家玩笑, 或者歧視別人的心態. 我們羨慕人家的地方, 有可能是別人不滿意或不願意被提起的地方. 舉例來說, 假設西方人覺得東方人比較圓的臉, 或比較小的眼睛很好看, 可是有個東方人覺得自己圓臉跟小眼不好看, 不喜歡人家提. 這時候要是西方人看到這個東方人就喊人[月亮臉]或是[小眼睛]. 東方人心裡會不會怪怪的呢? 因為這種認知差距, 避免用身體跟五官特徵去稱呼別人是有道理的.

再舉一個例子. 多數台灣人不喜歡被叫成中國人. 即使外國朋友說他們沒有惡意, 只是覺得台灣人跟中國人長得很像, 他們其實是很嚮往中國文化的等等, 有些可能心裡還是會怪怪的, 多數台灣人還是會告訴對方要叫自己台灣人. 可能有些人也許覺得國籍不能跟[阿兜仔]比, 但基本原則是一樣的: 大家應該彼此傾聽對方的感受跟意願, 互相稱呼彼此喜歡他人稱呼自己的方式 :)

Anonymous said...

I think it's historical remains. When Taiwanese people first see the westerners in the past, they noticed that the westerners had tall noses which were very diffrent to them. They used a direct term to describe it. Yes, I think it was not a polite way to call the westerners, but nowadays the term has become not that rude. Actually many people here now even call the westerners "vi koh ah".
They misunderstand that all the westerners are American. In other words, they thought all of westerners speak English. Yes, I agree with you that if one feels offensive, others should stop using that term to call one.

VHuang said...

As a serious publisher, the Liberty Times, in my opinion, should not have posted your article in the first place. Your interpretation of “阿兜仔” is flat-out wrong and can further mislead those (Taiwanses and westerners alike) who are not as familiar with Taiwanese language. I totally agree with the sentiment from one of the Anonymous friends that 「我們臺灣現在仍然受到語言和種族詆譭長久歷史的影響。」Consequently nowadays, not many Taiwanese truly appreciate or understand the beauty and the wisdom embedded in Taiwanese language any more. And then, to do a poll based on a faulty assumption is even worse. Whatever the numbers are, good or bad in your view, they are biased and skewed. I wish that you would send in your correction to the newspaper, rightfully returning “阿兜仔” its true color and flavor. As a senior journalist, you should know better that a seemly harmless misquote could end up poisoning the minds and distorting the views of many, through the invisible power of a popular mass publications like Liberty Times. Really, how many people, especially the young Taiwanese, who don’t know the meaning or never use the word ‘“阿兜仔” before, are now firmly believe that ‘“阿兜仔” means “Big Nose” and consider it a nasty Taiwanese word? It’s perfectly OK to write to get public opinion on the use of ““阿兜仔”, but please get the definition right first.

dan said...

VHuang, above:

You make some good points and thanks for your notes. If I made some mistakes in my Liberty Times letter to the editor (that's all it was, a letter to the editor, not an opinion commentary, just a mere reader's letter) ...if I made any mistakes in my poor understanding of Taiwanese culture and language, I do apologize and hope to correct things in a future article. All these comments here are teaching me many things, and I am just a student of all this. Not an expert at all, so I appreciate your input and corrections. Thanks.

-- Biko Lang

You can read my original article in English in the Taipei Times here, it explained my views much better. Take a look and comment back to me or email at bikolang@gmail.com

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2009/05/19/2003443960

dan said...

A Westerner in Taipei area who has lived in Taiwan for a long time, and blogs online, wrote:

"I wrote the heading [for my blog post about this issue] "Is adogah a racist term?" as a question, not a statement. It seems some people have read too much into that. I just hope people will read your article[s] [in the Taipei Times and in the Liberty Times] and think more about the issue. It has certainly promoted some discussion.

As for my opinion, I don't hear the word [adpah] used that much in Taipei. I feel use of this word is inappropriate in Taiwan today though.

Whether the term is racist depends on how you define racism. It seems a lot of people seem reluctant to apply the word racist here, but I believe that it does fit within the definition of racism. "

Anonymous said...

A Taiwanese expat living in the USA for a long time, married to a handsome ADOAH there, with one half-adoah son, says:

"Sir,

"Ah - in front of a name in Taiwanese is a intimate way of calling someone you love. My family called me "Ah-Guei" in Taiwanese when I was growing up in southern Taiwan. It was affectionate. I remember a TV show called "Ah-Ming" and ...

Again, Ah in front of the name "Ming" is an affectionate way of call the person Ming."

Sign me,

Ah-Guei

dan said...

A very good Taiwnese friend of mine, he is my teacher in many things about Taiwan, tells me today:

"As to the comments about your article in the Liberty Times, ...I haven't had time to read them yet.
I should find time to read them, and perhaps I will want to say something about it later.

Years ago, I read from some old material and found that, in late Ch'ng dynasty or early Japanese era, when Westerners came again to Taiwan (years and years after the Dutch), some Taiwanese people were glad and said that "Now, our Red Hair relatives are coming back to see us".

As you may know, "Red Hair" (Ang-mo-a) or "Red Hair barbarian" (Ang-mo-hoan) were used to refer to the Dutch or those Westerners coming to Taiwan with the Dutch, and, of course, "Chinese" people thought every non-Han people as barbarian.
Then, why some Taiwanese people thought the Westerners as their relatives?

I think, those Taiwanese people who were more Sinicized would, just like the Chinese, treated the Westerners as barbarians; but those who were not, were themselves treated by the Chinese as barbarians, and some among them still kept good memories about the Dutch, no matter the memories were true or false.

In a way, I don't think the situation has changed much.

Anyway, then "Red Hair" is a good term or a bad one?

Even "barbarian" is a good term or a bad one?

I am glad to say that I am a barbarian, though I have no red hair."

Anonymous said...

外人 (日語)

維基百科,自由的百科全書
跳轉到: 導航, 搜尋

日語寫法
日語原文 外人
假名 がいじん
羅馬字 Gaijin

「外人」是日文中的一個詞語。有主張認為該詞是「外國人」的略語。但無論語源還是在現代語的用法中都與「外國人」不同。相較於「外國人」,該詞常含有否定意味,且多指特定人種,也被一些人(多為西方人)認為是差別用語。

最早,日本人稱西方人為「南蠻人」。這是因為1542年最早的葡萄牙人來到日本時,乘坐的船是自南方來到日本。後來因為日本人看到荷蘭人毛發多為紅色,故又有紅毛人的稱呼,之後與與「南蠻人」並為日本人對西方人的稱號。1854年日本開國到20世紀初,常用「異人」作為「異國人」及「異邦人」的略語來稱呼西洋人。到明治時代,與居住在大日本帝國領土內的日本人被稱為「內國人」相對,大日本帝國以外出身的日本居住者被稱做「外國人」。「內國人」在第二次世界大戰以後不再使用,但「外國人」仍是日本政府對非日本人的正式用語。

dan said...

This commenter in Taiwan is angry, he or she tells me to go back to my own country if I don't like Taiwan. Nobody in Taiwan has ever said that to me before. I am shocked. I guess I did not express myself very well in that letter to the Liberty Times and some people are now very angry at me. I apologize for my ignorance everyone. I am just asking a question, questions. I don't have a PHd and I am not an expert. But this man or woman tells in last sentence of translation to GO BACK HOME! Ouch, I never heard that kind of talk in Taiwan before. In Japan, yes, many times. But in Taiwan, this is the first time to be told such a thing. I am a bit sad to hear that. But he said it:

''...then I urge you to go back to your country well to think."

see entire translation here:

Dear Biko Lang,

I do not agree with your letter to the editor in the Liberty Times of July 8. Moreover regarding this kind of race subject, is unable to put out the sense of humor completely personally. You thought probably Taiwan now or the British US perhaps Japan's colony, your foreigner comes Taiwan, wants saying that you think what kind, therefore the Taiwan people should think according to you acting accordingly. Is assorted is called " The television program and the advertisement should probably forbid to use these three character "?? " Should "?? A person wants the self-respect to be arrogant, should also have a limit; Runs up to others family, how said in others family the living room sofa to suspend, I did not know that westerner's custom is what kind, but I thought that the Taiwan people does not have this custom. Actually did not know that the original author is from where knew the Japanese, Malaysian, the Indonesian, the Indian, the African, the Vietnamese or the Filipino, do not have the use is similar “the Arab League raised young” the noun to call the westerner. The Japanese uses for to describe that westerner's vocabulary is " Bystander " (http://tinyurl.com/lnjo82), indicates " Your foreigner " To their Japanese " Must my class " , simply your westerner, the Caucasian, the black, has not treated as you with them equally is the same type, treats as for the Japanese the westerner is the dog is the pig is the cow, is assorted an animal insect lower level the biology, that only then the Japanese only then knew. Whether the Taiwan people should continue to use “the Arab League raised young” this glossary, should leave Taiwan people to decide, but is not because of " Your foreigner " Hears thinks not happily, we should stop using, now the time has been different, wants to colonize with the culture invites " Your foreigner " Puts out the original story to come, to let us think that your culture is quite outstanding, " Your foreigner " Says other nationality should accept good advice readily, I thought that if " Your foreigner " Thinks present's Taiwan people because of " Your foreigner " Looks like is the white skin blue eye high nose, this listens to " Your foreigner " Words, ...then I urge you to go back to your country well to think."

dan said...

CJ, above post, you said it very well, in Chinese here, thanks: -- BIKO (AKA Dan)

CJ said... above

其實許多外國朋友了解台灣人用這個詞時並無冒犯之意, 包括Dan在內, 但是還是不喜歡被稱呼[阿兜仔]. Dan很愛台灣, 長住在台灣, 更不是在抱怨台灣人. 只是告訴大家他的感受, 邀請大家跟他討論. 我不認為這是外國人對台灣語言的不了解或是打壓.

這裡有個文化差異也許台灣朋友可以試著了解思考. 目前西方文化是避免用[身體特徵]去稱呼或形容別人的. 過去有的這種類似字眼都在主流語言中漸漸改掉了. 這可能是為什麼這些外國朋友在了解這個詞的涵意之後, 還是不希望被叫[阿兜仔]的一個原因.

也許有些人覺得[阿兜仔]是羨慕稱讚外國朋友的高鼻子, 沒有不好的意思. 但對方如果不喜歡自己身體特徵被拿來當作稱呼, 也應該尊重, 不該認為說自己無意冒犯, 對方就不可以介意. 一般要是別人說話時無心傷害我們, 不表示我們心裡就不會不舒服, 就不會被冒犯. 這方面還是互相尊重一下, 不能完全用自己的想法.

而且人對五官跟身材的感受不是絕對的. 就算沒有開人家玩笑, 或者歧視別人的心態. 我們羨慕人家的地方, 有可能是別人不滿意或不願意被提起的地方. 舉例來說, 假設西方人覺得東方人比較圓的臉, 或比較小的眼睛很好看, 可是有個東方人覺得自己圓臉跟小眼不好看, 不喜歡人家提. 這時候要是西方人看到這個東方人就喊人[月亮臉]或是[小眼睛]. 東方人心裡會不會怪怪的呢? 因為這種認知差距, 避免用身體跟五官特徵去稱呼別人是有道理的.

再舉一個例子. 多數台灣人不喜歡被叫成中國人. 即使外國朋友說他們沒有惡意, 只是覺得台灣人跟中國人長得很像, 他們其實是很嚮往中國文化的等等, 有些可能心裡還是會怪怪的, 多數台灣人還是會告訴對方要叫自己台灣人. 可能有些人也許覺得國籍不能跟[阿兜仔]比, 但基本原則是一樣的: 大家應該彼此傾聽對方的感受跟意願, 互相稱呼彼此喜歡他人稱呼自己的方式 :)

July 8, 2009 12:36 PM

Anonymous said...

CJ said in translation machineish:

''Actually many foreign friends understood Taiwan people with this word when and not affronts meaning, including Dan, but does not like calling [Arab League pocket young]. Dan loves Taiwan very much, makes a long stay in Taiwan, is not complaining the Taiwan people. Is only tells everybody him the feeling, invites everybody to discuss with him. I did not think that this is the foreigner does not understand perhaps the suppression to Taiwan language. Perhaps here has the cultural difference Taiwan friend to be possible to try to understand the ponder. At present the Western culture avoids with [physical characters] calling or describing others. In the past some this kind of similar phrase gradually changed in the mainstream language. Why is this possibly these foreign friend after understanding this word contains Italy, did not hope that calls [Arab League pocket young] a reason. Perhaps some people thought that [Arab League pocket young] is envies commended foreign friend's high nose, does not have not the good meaning. But if opposite party does not like oneself physical characters bringing treats as the name, should also respect, should not think that said oneself has no intention to affront, opposite party may not mind. Generally if time others speech injures us unintentionally, did not express that we will be at heart uncomfortable, will be affronted. This aspect mutually respects, cannot use own idea completely. Moreover the human to the five senses with the stature feeling is not 絕. Even if has not played others joke, or discriminates against others' point of view. We envy others' place, has the possibility is others unsatisfied or is willing the place which mentions. For example, the supposition westerner thought that the Oriental quite round face, or the quite small eye is very attractive, but has an Oriental to think that oneself moon-face is unattractive with the aperture, does not like others raising. At this time if the westerner saw this Oriental shouts the human [the moon face] perhaps [small eye]. Can the Oriental blame strangely at heart? Because of this kind of cognition disparity, avoids with the body calling others with the five senses characteristic to make sense. Cites an example again. The most Taiwan people do not like calling the Chinese. Even if the foreign friend said that they do not have the evil intention, is only thought that the Taiwan people are long very with the Chinese looks like, they are actually yearned for very much the Chinese culture and so on, some possibly at heart strange, the most Taiwan people will tell opposite party to want to be called itself the Taiwan people. Perhaps the possible some people to think the nationality not to be able with [Arab League pocket young] compared to, but the basic principle is the same: Everybody should each other listen attentively to opposite party feeling with the wish, calls each other to like other people mutually calling own way:)''

dan said...

A VERY STRANGE COMMENT TODAY. BUT YOU DECIDE, DEAR READER, DOES THIS WOMAN MAKE SENSE OR WHAT? -- Biko

AMD SHE IS MY FRIEND! YES!

----------------------

"Dear Biko Lang,

As a Taiwanese woman living overseas, and married to a handsome adoah, with half-adoah kids too, I must say that
I have read thoroughly your blog, you cannot claim that this word offends ALL foreigners because I remember some foreigner likes the term A-do-ah .....

And some foreginers there does not care one way or the other as you said.


And you asked:

"... when you see the word in the Mandarin newspapers or on TVBS
in taiwan, you should tell the editors not to use it....the word
does NOT OFFEND me, Biko Lang,,,it offends all people..........not as a
slur, but as an old word....you seem to be DEFENDING THE word.....why?"

Mr Biko Lang, let me explain: I don't watch TV by the way. And I don't live in Taiwan for a long time now, as you know. I defend Taiwan from afar.

Yes, I defend the word ADOAH, and for the following reasons:

It's an old word that was invented to describe westerners but without any bad intentions to start with, it might be out of admiring...what Taiwanese don't have and wish to have...

Under the KMT's Mandarin-only education and ban on speaking Tai-Yu at schools back in the Marital Law era, the Taiwanese language is spoken by fewer and fewer people and now you are helping the KMT to kill a Taiwanese word and replace it with a newer version that may have heavy Chinese language influence, such as a word like Lao-Wai; the word Lao-wai (foreigner), Lao-puo (wife), and Lao-kong (husband) are all Chinese words not Tai-Yu.


[Editor's note: BIKO LANG notes with surprise and humor: ''OH, SO NOW I AM HELPING THE KMT? NOW I HEARD OF EVERYTHING...'']

But you might be thinking of using other neutral word, that's fine as long as the A-do-ah word co-exists at the same time as other newer neutral word without heavy Chinese influence.

For a person to live in a foreigner country, the person must (to some extend) adjust to the customs and traditions of that foreign country, this is called 入境隨俗.

For example, you will bring a rice bowl close to your mouth to eat the rice, this is not rude at all in Taiwan, but in your hometown culture (I believe is in Boston) it is probably not polite to lift up a plate to eat, so there is some cultural differences there.

You take the position of your hometown culture to judge the culture of your new adopted home, that's why you are not happy and feel offended.

If you cannot adjust your thinking to the way people think in your new adopted home and keep questioning or attacking the culture of this foreign country, you will always feel foreign to your environment, which is not good for your well-being spiritually.

Plus I already told you I would not call anyone A-Do-ah if he or she says this term is not liked, that means I respect individual rights, what more should I do than respecting your rights?

But, you invade other foreigners' rights of choice when they liked to be called A-do-ah, and you want to kill the word all together.

Still friends? puzzled? in deep thoughts? whether still friends or not.... I wish you best of luck, and yes when it comes to defend for Taiwanese language or Taiwanese culture, I have much strength to go on and on...because we were oppressed before and now Ma is repeating the history of the Chiang Kai-Shek's era."

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko,
Here is my translation of that earlier comment:

He said that it was thirty years ago, KMT taught Taiwanese people calling Soviet “big nose”. It was the time people showing their hostility to communists. As for A-DO-AH, it’s for US soldiers who stationed in Taiwan. It’s not contemptuous of US people. It is only because they have tall pointed noise which is very different to local Taiwanese. It is a little bit of joking and even compliment. Anyway, it was long time ago and no one really use these terms anymore.

RE:

非!話要說起三十年前的故事了,大鼻子:是以前中國國民黨要台灣人叫蘇俄(蘇聯Soviet)人,有仇視的味道,因為以前說要反共抗俄(蘇俄大鼻子),殺朱拔毛。
阿凸仔:是指鼻子尖尖的人,以前美軍協防台灣,很多美國人在街上,不同於台灣人的比較扁闊的鼻子,所以台灣人叫他們阿凸仔,沒有扁低的意思,但有些joke,或稱讚別人有美好挺的鼻子!當然現在已沒有這回事了!不反共抗俄殺朱拔毛,稱老美了!

VHuang said...

In your original article, you use words “prominent” & “high”, which more accurately capture the essence of the Taiwanese slang “adoah”. Again, it should never be translated into “「大鼻子的人」, an expression full of insults and ridicule, and published to the mostly Mandarin readers. The meaning is totally obscured. I am not trying to hammer on you or your kind-hearted friend, who translated the article for you, but merely trying to point out that it is important to give the right/true statement and that it is imperative that Liberty Times editors do a good editing job before publishing it to the pubic. Also, it’s utterly inappropriate for professor Chen Chun-kai (陳君愷) to equate “adoah” to “taibazi”; it’s not merely a meaningless comparison between orange and apple, it is the good vs. the evil. Sorry I might have sounded a bit “heavy,” earlier, but I sincerely hope no one takes writing for public lightly; the info should be as accurate as possible.

dan said...

Dear VHuang,

Nice chatting with you today. I am glad you read the original article in English, you are right, it was more accurate, the translation in the Liberty Times and the cutting of the article by almost 60 percent changed my impact. But this is my fault and I apologize and I appreciate your correcting me on this. I never take your advice as heavy, it is good to learn things this way.

-- Biko

as for your comment below, read my comments in CAPS and reply later if you wish. -- BK

VHuang said...

In your original article, you use words “prominent” & “high”, which more accurately capture the essence of the Taiwanese slang “adoah”. YES. MUCH BETTER.

Again, it should never be translated into “「大鼻子的人」, an expression full of insults and ridicule, and published to the mostly Mandarin readers.

DOES THAT MEAN, literally, "BIG NOSE PERSON"?] THAT WAS NOT A GOOD TRANSLATION. OOPS!

The meaning is totally obscured.
I AGREE WITH YOU.

I am not trying to hammer on you or your kind-hearted friend, who translated the article for you, but merely trying to point out that it is important to give the right/true statement and that it is imperative that Liberty Times editors do a good editing job before publishing it to the pubic.
I AGREE WITH YOU!

Also, it’s utterly inappropriate for professor Chen Chun-kai (陳君愷) to equate “adoah” to “taibazi”; it’s not merely a meaningless comparison between orange and apple, it is the good vs. the evil.
THIS IS A GOOD POINT. IT WAS NOT DR CHEN WHO WAS COMPARING. IT WAS ME IN MY ARTICLE, and IT WAS MY COMPARISON WHICH IS DANGEROUS, I WAS NOT COMPARING OR EQUATING, JUST SAYING IF SOME WORDS ARE BAD, AND TAIBAZI is TERRIBLE, THEN LET'S LOOK AT SOME OTHER WORDS,,,BUT ADOAH DOES NOT EVEN EVER COMPARE TO TAIBAZI. THAT WAS MY CARELESSNESS, NOT DR CHEN. HE IS GOOD MAN. HE WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND THINGS. PLS DO NOT BLAME HIM. BLAME ME FOR BEING CARELESS.

Sorry I might have sounded a bit “heavy,” earlier, but I sincerely hope no one takes writing for public lightly; the info should be as accurate as possible.

YOU ARE NOT HEAVY and I APPRECITE YOUR TAKING TIME TO EDUCATE ME. I WROTE THESE ARTICLES IN THE TT AND THE LT IN ORDER TO LEARN, FROM YOU, THE TAIWANESE PEOPLE. I AM NOT THE TEACHER HERE. I AM THE STUDENT. KEEP TEACHING ME. I AM ALL EARS. YOUR COMMENTS WERE VERY VERY GOOD.

I THINK YOU MIGHT BE A PROFESSOR OR A DOCTOR OR A PSYCHOLOGIST. RIGHT?

-- Biko Lang

R said...

DAN與CJ你們好:

如果你們希望台灣不要"誤會"這篇文章是一種對台灣文化的不了解與打壓,並且理性的討論"國際主流修辭法"和你的個人感受。

那你們就必須先將自己站回客觀與中立的位置,並對將「阿兜仔」一詞解釋為「少許欺辱和不敏銳、輕蔑、不正經」以及對比為「台巴子」,這種貶抑的言論做出修正與道歉。

無論那些言論來自何處,當你引以為證時就成了你的言論,我必須鄭重的要求你對不當的言論道歉。


同時再次說明,「阿兜仔」一詞是俚語,是中性的。

既然是俚語,必然是直率的、貼切的、無心機的、粗獷的,當然不適合正式場合或外交詞令。

如果你們真的有把「俚語」的定義搞清楚,那你們就不會用「國際」、「主流」這樣的標準來檢討這個詞。

若你們真有國際主流的視野與胸襟,那麼你們的心靈也應當不會脆弱到為了這個中性又樸拙的詞來受傷。

Anonymous said...

Biko Lang

the man who wrote you the comment about Chink and Negro, he said in translation something like this...

....the guy also gives fairly comment by comparison, but he is just a
little bit agitating.

He says that there are some terms using by foreigners in the USA
such as Chink and Negro.

So, if you don’t want us call you A-DO-AH, than the
foreigners should stop using those terms as well.

He also says language is a
condensation of history, therefore, every different culture has its unique
terms through different time.

He agrees we should not use ADOAH for people
harmony. But in his own personal opinion , he wants to tell you
“IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS”.

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko Lang

This letter here means:

當老外不再用Chink、Negro類似這些字的字眼時

再來要求別人吧?

某種程度上

語言本身就是文化歷史的縮影

台灣是這樣

中國是這樣

先進的西方國家也是這樣

所以三小「遠東」、「近東」這種鳥詞才會出現

「阿兜仔」、「老歐阿」甚至「大陸妹」咱也是用得很開心

當然

站在「和諧」的觀點,這些詞當然少用為妙
但站在本人充滿偏激自私主觀的「本土觀點」

我只想跟你這位「外國友人」說:

「干你屁事!!!」

先管好自己的國家人民再來別人的地盤說三道四不遲

this guy also gives fairly comment by comparison, but he is just a little bit agitating. He says that there are some terms using by foreigners such as Chink and Negro. So, if you don’t want us call you A-DO-AH, than the foreigners should stop using those terms as well. He also says language is a condensation of history, therefore, every different culture has its unique terms through different time. He agrees we should not use ADOAH for people harmony. But at his personal, local and selfish aspect, he wants to tell you “IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS”.

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko

this guy says that there are some terms using by foreigners such as Chink and Negro. So, if you don’t want us call you A-DO-AH, than the foreigners should stop using those terms as well. He also says language is a condensation of history, therefore, every different culture has its unique terms through different time. He agrees we should not use ADOAH for people harmony. But at his personal, local and selfish aspect, he wants to tell you “IT'S NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS”.

Biko said...

RE 『阿凸仔』

◎ A reader of the Liberty Times tells me today:


署名 Biko Lang 的西方人士,在自由廣場投書呼籲台灣人:請別叫我「阿凸仔」!其理由是因為許多住在台灣工作的西方人認為,那是一個侮辱和不尊敬的詞句,不應該出現在公眾場合。


筆者同意Biko的看法。打從少年時代開始接觸西方傳教士,到了成年在美軍駐台顧問團工作,筆者接觸過的西方人為數不少,但是我始終沒有使用過「阿凸仔」來稱呼西方人。當然,我承認目前在台灣還有許多人使用「阿凸仔」來稱呼西方人。在新加坡、馬來西亞等國家使用福建方言的華人族群裡,他們雖然不講出「阿凸仔」,卻使用另類獨特的稱呼。他們把西方白種人通稱為「紅毛仔」,看場合有時也叫「紅毛猴」,而且是現在進行式。在新加坡的地理中心地帶就有個大社區叫做紅毛橋("Ang Mo Kio")。新加坡政府早查覺到此語不妥,所以帶頭把華文的正式名稱改為「宏茂橋」以期誘導新加坡人漸漸地淡忘「紅毛橋」。高明吧!


比較之下,台灣的政府對此現象似乎很遲鈍,以新聞自由為擋箭牌,任媒體公然高唱「阿凸仔」長,「阿凸仔」短的,絲毫沒有考慮到被稱為「阿凸仔」的感受。兩個華人政府,一個精明,一個遲鈍。令「有品」的台灣人無語問蒼天。

-------------

* NOTE: 作者早期曾任美軍駐台顧問團翻譯官...

VHuang said...

Dan,
I am just a little hard-working nobody who has a big heart for Taiwan. Cheers.

dan said...

Dear VHuang,


''Dan,
I am just a little hard-working nobody who has a big heart for Taiwan. Cheers.''

No no no, nobody is a nobody. We are all somebodies, all of us on this planet. I firmly believe that. And yes, I can see you have a big and warm heart for Taiwan, and that is paramount!

-- Dan

dan said...

A Taiwanese woman, age 27, wheelchair bound forever in Taipie due to childhood polio, never recovered but the sweetest angel on Earth, really, she says todday:

"Dear Biko Lang

I’m very sorry to hear from this trouble with the word adoah. Thank you for your article sharing.

I’m honest to tell you. Yes, I used that word with a cute way privately. But I never use this term to speak in front of my foreigners.

I think it’s impolite to speak in this word with them.I always call their English name.

Yes, People use it because they think it’s harmless and even a cute way of expression.

We ignore foreigner’s uncomfortable feeling in Taiwan.I'm sorry.

Thank you very much for telling me your feelings.

Give you a hug ...

from Enya."

dan said...

A Taiwanese friend tells me, and yes, I'm listening and I'm learning. -- Biko:

"Dear Biko Lang

I read the comment in Chinese above somewhere asking you to apologise for [seemingly] equating ADOAH to Taipazi. I know you weren't doing that, but it was not real clear in print. Perhaps there are some grounds to this because ADOAH is never intended as an insult like Taipazi is. So that gentleman had a point. It's worth listening to, too. I am sure you are a good listener.... That's part of being a good writer....

If you can clarify this in the future, those people who did not understand you and felt you were equating Taibazi with Adoah -- and I know you weren't, but it was not real clear in the Liberty Times letter -- won't have any excuse for being angry.

I don't fully accept what many Taiwanese say that adoah is just a slang term and therefore is OK. There are slang words that don't involve physical features and don't create bad feelings.

I feel that overall, most Liberty Times readers and commenters here are generally nice and receptive about your article. Readers of the Liberty Times are mostly 'Taiwanese'.

As to those angry ones, this is the pain of communication... Once started, we can only keep going... You've done well, sir, and I love the way you love Taiwan!"

dan said...

A professor from the USA in Taiwan tells me:

"This is all so interesting. It all started with an innocent, playful comment just to see what people thought.

These reactions pro and con say there is a lot beneath the surface.

Keep going in the direction you're going."

Anonymous said...

米國郎

作者Biko Lang (台語:米國郎) 不知從誰那邊聽說"ㄚ豆ㄚ"是鄙視或輕視的字詞,不過這個既然本人不喜被人叫"ㄚ豆ㄚ",請認識他的朋友就叫他的名字或是米國郎就是了,每個人都有權利不被叫他自己不喜歡的名字的。

Anonymous said...

How about this: From this day on, YOU Caucasian people stop calling we people who live in Taiwan Taiwan"ese"?? Since some of our Taiwan people feel being insulted by being called Taiwan"ese".

Biko said...

From a Taiwanese reader of the Liberty Times:

"Dear Biko Lang

From what you posted on Taipei Times article on May 19, 2009:

YOU WROTE IN ENGLISH: "Are you an adoah? And do you like being called adoah by friends, co-workers or complete strangers on the street? And maybe even by your wife or husband?"

THIS IS MY RESPONSE AS A TAIWANESE MAN:

"Taiwanese would not use adoah to call a foreigner on his face. But when Taiwanese A is asking Taiwanese B “what name is that foreigner?”, he would ask “what name is that adoah?”

When we know the foreigner’s name, we would mostly use his name instead.

However, among Taiwanese’s conversation without the foreigners on site, adoah could be used again to describe that (those) particular foreigner(s).

To my knowledge and my personal use of adoah, it is simply a description to bring the foreigner to the sentence.

I have never used it to call a foreigner friend..... especially I already know his (her) name.

The least would be describing as Bikoah when I am talking to my brother, friends about my American friend since they probably have no idea of what his name is or can’t even remember his name.

I hope this makes things more clear for you about our use of the word adoah in Taiwan."

Biko said...

Dear Biko Lang,

When you wrote in the English article in the Taipei Times about a professor in Taiwan, a Taiwanese man, who told you:“Although most Taiwanese truly think adoah is a humorous word, if most Western foreigners in Taiwan hate that word ... then that word is no doubt a bad word and should not be used anymore by our people.”

I want to tell you I disagree with that professor in your article who proposed to stop using this word. Well, he didn't propose it, I think you did, and he agreed with you. But....

First, this descriptive word of ADOAH for foreigners here sarted far earlier than the day I was born and has been used by merely all native Taiwanese speakers. How could it be stopped? Do you plan to ask the government to ban it? Of course, not. It's our language. And i know that is NOT your intention. You just want to understand the history of the word better and that is good! You are a good student of Taiwan life!

But please don’t tell me that using this word would cause me a fine as I had been through that time of getting a $0.50 fine caught by speaking Taiwanese when I was 10 or 11 years old. I think you know about those old days here when it was forbidden to speak Taiwanese!

Biko said...

"Dear Biko Lang

How did I find you and this Liberty Times discussion about adoah, pro and con?

Well, I just happened to read the news on Liberty Times and wanted to leave my personal opinion at your blog.

You know how to say the word BUSASA I see..... (smile)

…, It sounds like you have become a native Taiwanese because even my kids don’t know Taiwanese much.

You are about the age of my American customer whom I work with for more than 12 years and deem him as a big brother of mine. He buys some products from Taiwan, but is buying more from China now. I only take care of the part exported from Taiwan.

It is a paradise here in Taiwan indeed. And truth to be told, Taiwanese is far more friendly towards adoah than Taiwanese fellows.

I understand you are not complaining.... but trying to find out why we would call foreigners “adoah” ..this is all.

Please do take it easy. As most Taiwanese are extremely nice to westerners, we would never create a word or a term to tease or insult you whatsoever.

If you hear adoah 10 times a day, I bet that you are staying at central or southern Taiwan.

If so, you should know that the people are generally more polite in northern Taiwan. But I am sure you are enjoying life too with the good folks of southern Taiwan too. I am very glad to hear that you feel great to be here and with the people here.

It is our pleasure to have you here learning Taiwanese and try to make it a better language.

I guess I am helpless to ease the feelings of those foreigners who feel bad or insulted being called or pointed as “adoah”, unless they try to understand why we use “adoah” as description.

By knowing that, you will see more clearly that a word or a term coming out from friendly people is always harmless. Otherwise, you would be wrong to feel that we are nice people, wouldn’t you?

I am from central Taiwan, but I have lived in Taipei city for 12 years, and also in Taipei County now for 13 years. I go back to Taichung to see my mom about 3 times a month.

Maybe sometime we can meet and go fishing or lobster-fishing. You are from Boston so you must love lobster!

Thanks for your good feelings about Taiwan, and I hope we can help you to better understand the meaning and history of the adoah term. It is not an insult at all. Sorry for the mis-understanding on your part.

Maybe now you understand us better? I hope so."

Anonymous said...

找不到此 blog。

dan said...

An American expat longtime in Taiwan says re all this:

"One possibility about Taiwanese teens and kids who LOL as they walk away from some foreigner on the street who one of their group has just called "adogah" .....is that they're laughing at the "cojones" of the one who did it soeaking -- or perhaps at his silliness."

[Ed. note: Good point, sir. They are not laffing at the foreigner. They are just engaging in normal kid/teen behavior of laffing at one of their own who has the balls to do something outrageous or just plain SILLY, good point.]

dan said...

A thoughtful university student in Taipei, a junior this year, so in his late teens, early 20s, told me today:

"Hi Dan,

I think I've never used this word, adoah, before.

But I didn't know that this word has such meaning to foreigner.

So do you feel uncomfortable when hearing this word???

I think most of the people use this word, but they don't they may offend others.

It should be told by someone so that everyone can know they shouldn't use this word anymore."

[Ed. note: Good point, sir.]

Biko said...

Hi Biko,

First, I want to thank you for replying me back and let me know about your culture. I totally agree with you that if YOU don't like anything, we shall stop doing it.

Second, YES, please send your English version of the adoah article that appeared in the Taipei Times on May 19 to me, I really want to read it.

Third, my English is not good enough but good enough to communicate with you, hope you don't mind reading some broken English. ^_^

Fourth, I thought that most of people were angry with your EXAMPLE of TAIBAZI, comparing it to ADOAH, not because of your "big nose" article. SEE?

The bad example is that you have compare "Taiwanese" vs. "Mr Guo Guan-Ying" the arrogant mainlander who wrote those bad words in his blog about Taibazi.

I am a Taiwanese, I have been bullied my whole life by so-called "Wai Sheng Ren" (I am sure you understand what it means -- MAINLANDERS). However, I have never treated any of my "Wai Sheng" friends badly.

P.S. I am not angry with you for your article, I just wanted you to understand that we don't mean to hurt anyone's feeling, not like what "Guo Guan-Ying".

Nice talking to you and thank for loving this island, it needs more love.... I would cry whenever I hear a foreinger saying he (or she) loves Taiwan...... as some people don't love Taiwan and don't know how to cherish their luck for being there.


P.S. Usually, I don't bother to check my English gramma or spelling, hope you don't mind. However, if any sentence ever caused any misunderstanding, please must ask me. Thanks."

[BIKO LANG SAYS: "What a nice nice nice letter. Thank you for writing to me this way. I do love Taiwan. It is because of people like you, ma'am, and your kindness and warm heart.!"]

Biko said...

我就這樣哈上了台灣 by BIKO LANG

是一位美國籍的新聞工作者,旅居亞洲十年之久,五年前來到台灣.他可能和你印象中的外國人不太一樣;他愛吃路邊攤,對臭豆腐情有獨鍾,愛搭普快車遊台灣.
為什麼他如此喜愛台灣?
因為隨時隨處可尋的台灣美食,媲美義大利的嘉義鄉村風光,還有熱情友善的計程車司機.....
從他在台灣的奇遇與生活中,你會發現,在這樣一塊我們熟悉的土地上,擁有這麼多可愛的人事物,讓身為台灣人的你我,也忍不住驕傲起來.
=========================
※ 丹布隆 美國籍的自由新聞工作者,畢業於波士頓的 Tufts University, Boston, Massachusetts USA 主修法文。旅居亞洲十年之久,曾於日本停留五年,五年前來到台灣,目前居住在嘉義。

http://www.books.com.tw/exep/prod/booksfile.php?item=0010169204

Anonymous said...

"Hey Biko Lang,

As a Taiwanese man who has lived overseas and am back in Taipei now, I think I understand all these different views, and I certainly agree that people should not be called anything they don't like. But I also began wondering about this one question:

How do we usually refer to someone (or some group of people) when we don't really know anything about them, their names, and their nationalities but their physical appearances?

Don't get me wrong. I don't have an answer yet.

It just occurred to me that in the movies that police usually describe their suspects on the run with things like "male," "Caucasian," "African-American," "6''4," and so on. People do use phrases of physical appearances to describe people sometimes, and they don't find them problematic. Perhaps we do need to define what will be okay and when that will be okay."

J.
JULY 11, 2009

VHuang said...

Dan,
I am appalled and dismayed that the editorial staff of the Liberty Times has published yet another obscured and discriminating letter today. I am also deeply disappointed that you would let the malice snowballing without even attempting to put out the fire that you started. I regret to say that I do not appreciate your way of learning about Taiwan. Any local slang, good or bad, whether you like it or not, does has its historical meaning. As we understand and learn more from each other - through globalization, closer contact, and reduced tensions - the negative slang will be used less and less and eventually become just an ancient word mentioned somewhere in the historical references. Likewise, even the positive slang words like “阿兜仔” might also gracefully fade into our memory as people become more sophisticated (though not necessarily more high-class and 有品.)

As expected, with your ill-advised letter to the Liberty Times on 7/8/09, you have effectively misled many into disgracing an innocent local slang. It’s evident in some comments posted in your blog and it even served as a convenient vehicle for people like Mr. Yellow River (黃大河) to stab Taiwanese in the back. Mr. Huang, who arrogantly promoted himself as a “high-class with good taste Taiwanese” because he never uses the “insulting” and “disrespectful“ “阿兜仔” to address the Westerners!Regardless who Mr. Yellow River is, judging the way he slams on other Taiwanese who use the slang word, he is no different than 郭冠英. It’s an insult to the vast majority of the decent, kind-hearted Taiwanese who use the slang word in a general term to address the “Westerners.” Some who visited your blog have already pointed out “阿兜仔” is merely an informal reference to one or a group of westerners, from a distance or in local people’s private conversations. No one will directly name a westerner “阿兜仔” face to face, unless, of course, that person is joking with his/her own western friend.

It’s a common knowledge that in Hong Kong and in many areas of China, people address the westerners, especially the American, as “Quei-Lau (i.e. Old Ghost),” a downright disrespectful and degrading slang, and it is as Mr. Yellow River phrased it: “而且是現在進行式”. I challenge Mr. Yellow River, the “high-class with good-taste,” the self-proclaimed Taiwanese, to maybe write a letter to the major Chinese publications to suggest the elimination of the use of “Quei-Lau” to promote the image of the Chinese.

I not only question Mr. Huang’s integrity but also his wisdom. He considers Singapore government being ultra smart in teaching its people to forget 紅毛橋, thus wiping out a piece of its history. I am not against renaming the bridge to a more contemporary one, but “紅毛橋” needs to be preserved for historical reference. For the same reason, I am fine replacing “da-go” with “Kaoshung” while keeping the old name for historical purpose. Let me point out that a man with “good taste” but without roots is as hollow as a zombie.

Dan, I also challenge you to do the sensible thing by sending in a corrective letter to the Liberty Times to do justice to “阿兜仔,” a positive, well-meaning Taiwanese slang, which reflects a part of the Taiwanese history and culture, and therefore deserves to be preserved.

Again, I would like to remind you that as a professional journalist, educated in the supposedly the most civilized country where human rights, tradition, culture, and history are cherished and well guarded, you should take this matter seriously. It’s not merely a playful game for your personal pleasure or a fun adventure to satisfy your own curiosity. Because of your misleading (or defaming, to be precise) letter, we are talking about your possibly “slaughtering” a well-meaning slang and therefore “destroying” a fond memory of many true Taiwanese.

Biko said...

Dear VHuang,

Re your good letter, above, let me try to explain. First of all, it I made any mistakes in the way I wrote to the Liberty Times the first time, last week, july 8, I humbly apologize to you and other readers. really. I think the translation of my letter did not make clear my intentions, which was NOT to compare Taibazi with Adoah: Taibazi is a terrible word, and I am appalled too......and adoah is just a slang term should be inoffensive and seeen as affectionate and warm, i agree with you, sir. So please accept my apologies, and if you feel like it, write a letter to the Liberty Times too and explain your ideas. I am open to all ideas and you seem to have good ideas. So write to the Liberty Times at forum@libertytimes.com.tw

IN CAPITAL LETTERS MY REPLY TO YOU:

I am appalled and dismayed that the editorial staff of the Liberty Times has published yet another obscured and discriminating letter today. I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD LETTER. I DON'T KNOW THE AUTHOR OF THE LETTER BUT HE WROTE TO ME BY EMAIL AND WAS VERY FRIENDLY AND WARM. I THINK HE USED TO WORK AS A MILITARY INTERPRETER FOR THE US ARMY IN TAIWAN DURING 1960s...

I am also deeply disappointed that you would let the malice snowballing without even attempting to put out the fire that you started. I CANNOT PUT OUT THE FIRE, SIR. THERE IS NO FIRE. I HOPE NOT. IT'S JUST A FRIENDLY DISCUSSION. PLEASE JOIN IN.

I regret to say that I do not appreciate your way of learning about Taiwan. SORRY. I AM TRYING MY BEST TO LEARN ABOUT TAIWAN. PLEASE GIVE ME MORE TIME, AND PLEASE BE MY TEACHER.

Any local slang, good or bad, whether you like it or not, does has its historical meaning. YES YES , YOU ARE CORRECT.

As we understand and learn more from each other - through globalization, closer contact, and reduced tensions - the negative slang will be used less and less and eventually become just an ancient word mentioned somewhere in the historical references. ***I HOPE SO. GOOD!

Likewise, even the positive slang words like “阿兜仔” might also gracefully fade into our memory as people become more sophisticated (though not necessarily more high-class and 有品.) I AGREE WITH YOU. ADOAH IS NOT ABOUT HIGH CLASS OR LOW CLASS. IT IS ABOUT LANGUAGE, and IT IS ABOUT HOW PEOPLE SEE FOREIGNERS IN THEIR MIDST. I AM MIDDLE CLASS MYSELF, WITH NO PHD OR MD DEGREE, JUST A WORKING JOURNALIST WHO LOVES TAIWAN.

As expected, with your ill-advised letter to the Liberty Times on 7/8/09, you have effectively misled many into disgracing an innocent local slang. FOR THIS, I APOLOGIZE, SIR.

It’s evident in some comments posted in your blog and it even served as a convenient vehicle for people like Mr. Yellow River (黃大河) to stab Taiwanese in the back.
NOBODY SHOULD STAB ANYBODY IN THE BACK. I DON'T KNOW WHO MR YELLOW RIVER IS. OH WAS HE THE WRITER OF TODAY's LETTER. HE SEEMS LIKE A NICE MAN TO ME. BUT I CANNOT READ HIS LETTER I CANNOT READ CHINESE, WHAT DID HE SAY, EXACTLY. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH HIM, WRITE A GOOD LETTER TO THE LIBERTY TIMES. THE EDITORS THERE ARE GOOD AND FAIR PEOPLE.

Mr. Huang, who arrogantly promoted himself as a “high-class with good taste Taiwanese” because he never uses the “insulting” and “disrespectful“ “阿兜仔” to address the Westerners!

Regardless who Mr. Yellow River is, judging the way he slams on other Taiwanese who use the slang word, he is no different than 郭冠英. It’s an insult to the vast majority of the decent, kind-hearted Taiwanese who use the slang word in a general term to address the “Westerners.” Some who visited your blog have already pointed out “阿兜仔” is merely an informal reference to one or a group of westerners, from a distance or in local people’s private conversations. AND THEY ARE CORRECT YES. I HAVE LEARNED THAT NOW.

Biko said...

continued...

Vhaung sir

No one will directly name a westerner “阿兜仔” face to face, unless, of course, that person is joking with his/her own western friend. NO NO, SIR, IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME MANY TIMES IN TAIWAN. AND NOT ONLY ME. MANY WESTERNERS HEAR THE WORD FACE TO FACE EVEN WHEN THEY VISIT THEIR IN-LAWS DURING LUNAR NEW YEAR. AND THE IN-LAWS LOVE THEIR SONS IN LAW FROM THE WEST AND CALL THEM ADOAH TO THEIR FACE IN A LOVING WAY. YES. BUT THE SONS IN LAW TOLD ME THEY DONT LIKE TO HEAR THAT WORD! I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!

It’s a common knowledge that in Hong Kong and in many areas of China, people address the westerners, especially the American, as “Quei-Lau (i.e. Old Ghost),” TERRIBLE! THAT IS TERRIBLE TOO. IN JAPAN SOME PEOPLE CALLED ME HAIRY BARBARIAN IN 1991.

a downright disrespectful and degrading slang, and it is as Mr. Yellow River phrased it: “而且是現在進行式”. I challenge Mr. Yellow River, the “high-class with good-taste,” the self-proclaimed Taiwanese, to maybe write a letter to the major Chinese publications to suggest the elimination of the use of “Quei-Lau” to promote the image of the Chinese.

I not only question Mr. Huang’s integrity but also his wisdom. He considers Singapore government being ultra smart in teaching its people to forget 紅毛橋, thus wiping out a piece of its history. I am not against renaming the bridge to a more contemporary one, but “紅毛橋” needs to be preserved for historical reference. For the same reason, I am fine replacing “da-go” with “Kaoshung” while keeping the old name for historical purpose. Let me point out that a man with “good taste” but without roots is as hollow as a zombie.

Dan, I also challenge you to do the sensible thing by sending in a corrective letter to the Liberty Times to do justice to “阿兜仔,” a positive, well-meaning Taiwanese slang, which reflects a part of the Taiwanese history and culture, and therefore deserves to be preserved. GOOD IDEA. THE EDITOR AT THE LIBERTY TIMES INVITED ME TO WRITE A SECOND LETTER IN TWO WEEKS TO EXPLAIN MYSELF BETTER. I WANT TO DO THIS, AND I WILL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION YOUR GOOD LETTER HERE, THANK YOU SIR.

Again, I would like to remind you that as a professional journalist, educated in the supposedly the most civilized country where human rights, tradition, culture, and history are cherished and well guarded, you should take this matter seriously. I DO. I DO. ALSO REMEMBER, the USA IS NOT SO CIVILIZED. THE GOVT THERE KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE IN FOREIGN WARS LikE IN VIETNAM AND IRAN, AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE? I ALSO CRITICIZE MY OWN "CIVILIZED" NATION, TOO.

It’s not merely a playful game for your personal pleasure or a fun adventure to satisfy your own curiosity. NO THIS IS NOT A GAME. I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT TAIWAN PEOPLE THINK ABOUT ADOAH. MOST YOUNG PEOPLE, 20 YEARS OLD, TOLD ME THEY WONT USE IT ANYMORE IF WE DONT LIKE IT....

Because of your misleading (or defaming, to be precise) letter, we are talking about your possibly “slaughtering” a well-meaning slang and therefore “destroying” a fond memory of many true Taiwanese.

THIS IS IMPORTANT SIR. I DO NOT WANT TO BE SEEN AS SLAUGHTERING A FOND MEMORY. MANY PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME OF THEIR FOND MEMOREIS OF THE ADOAH WORD, AND I REALLY UNDERSTAND. IN THE PAST, THAT WORD HAS GOOD MEMORIES. BUT IS THERE A BETTER WORD YOU CAN THINK OF TO USE FOR WESTERN PEOPLE TODAY, LIKE "WAH GO LANG"? PLEASE TELL ME.

BUT NO, I AM NOT A KILLER OF THE ADOAH WORD. I KNOW ITS HISTORY AND I RESPECT THAT HISTORY. I LOVE THE TAIWANESE LANGUAGE EVEN THOUGH I AM BUSASA ABOUT MOST OF IT. PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND ME. I AM ON YOUR SIDE. I AM NOT A CRITIC OF TAIWAN. I AM A LOVER OF TAIWAN.

BUT I DID NOT EXPLAIN MYSELF SO WELL, I APOLOGIZE. Do write to me at my email bikolang@gmail.com we can continue this conversation.

Dan

Biko said...

to VHAUNG, also:

an interesting letter from a Taiwanese friend in Taipei today, he is
an editor at a major book company. about 50 years old


Dear dear dear Dan,

I don't know how to resolve the problem you have--or we have.

As we know it, many (or, every, I don't know) words are not good or
bad by themselves. They are good or bad because how people use them,
how the words are used in a context. The same word spoken by different
people or in different contexts can mean differently.
I don't know how they used "a-tok-a" (adoah) in TV. But I can imagine
how they can distort many Taiwanese words in TV. In fact, for many
Taiwanese (or Chinese) people, many Taiwanese words are vulgar, though
they will never admit that they think so.

Here is my problem: if one day, I introduce you to other friends, how
should I say, if in Taiwanese? "Hi, pals, here is my a-tok-a friend,
Dan"? Or, "here is my Bi-kok (American) friend"? Or "here is my
Goa-kok (foreign) friend"? I think I won't use "Bi-kok" (unless the
other friends ask me where you are from) or "Goa-kok", because they
sound so "remote", like you are not really my friend. OK, maybe I
should simply say "here is my friend', omitting any modifier. But, if
I somehow would like to emphasize something, like, see, Dan is a
friend, a friend from oversea.... then, how should I put it?
If I promise you that I will NEVER speak about you with "a-tok-a"
BEHIND YOUR BACK, if I only say so in your face like in the case just
mentioned--introducing you to other Taiwanese friends, will it be OK
for you? No, I don't think so, because I still use it IN PUBLIC. But,
hey, come on, if not in public, in front of other people, why do I
need the word "a-tok-a"?
So, this is a real problem for me. Hmmm, OK, I should try to coin a
new word and see if I can make it common....

Hey, a question comes to me suddenly: it seems "a-tok-a" not only
refers to Caucasian Westerners, it seems it can also refer to black
people, right? If I would like to be specific, can I say "oo-lang
a-tok-a" (black-people-adoah)? Hm, I should ask somebody about this.

As to the "distortion" mentioned above, you know--the letter from the
woman who lives in Australia reminds me of this--how Taiwanese
languages have been depreciated, distorted, and oppressed. That copies
of bibles in Taiwanese languages were confiscated and forbidden is a
real and live story. Friends from churches in Tainan can tell you
about this. My college friend from Taitong, who is an Amis, told me
that their bibles in Amis were taken away and burned. And you know
once KMT ordered that all "poo-te-hi" (puppy theater) should be
performed in Mandarin and the time slots you were ALLOWED to speak
Taiwanese in TV or Radio were limited. And how Taiwanese have been
used in the TV dramas....
How can a language survive and develop healthily under such a
condition? How can the younger generation who grows up with TV speak
Taiwanese in a proper way? And how will young people view Taiwanese?
The situation has changed since 1990s. Slowly, but it has changed. The
problem is that the effect is here.

Biko said...

continued to VHUANG:

''When I was a student, maybe in my sophomore year, we (a group of male
classmates who came from the south and the east; none of us is Taipei
native) found we had a beautiful girl in our department (she was, of
course, in her first year). You can imagine how we loved to gather
around her and spoke to her. We were used to talk in Taiwanese, not
always, but usually, or were used to shift between Taiwanese and
Mandarin. Somehow we knew the girl came from Taichung and could speak
Taiwanese. Once, we suddenly found that, even we all talked to her in
Taiwanese, she always answered in Mandarin, and we found it funny. So
we asked her if she knew Taiwanese to make sure which language we
should use. She said: "Yes, I know. But it is a vulgar language." She
said so in our face. At that moment, we became speechless and knew we
should draw away. At that moment I also knew how I was
undomesticated--and I still am. A barbarian. (By the way, my teacher,
how to say 學長、學弟、學妹 in English?)
Mandarin is the "official" language in our office. But I usually shift
to Taiwanese, especially somehow I suddenly forget (or don't know) how
to say a word or a sentence in Mandarin. One day, maybe in last year,
a girl told me, "don't you think Taiwanese is only spoken by old
people?" Oh, yes, I am an old man now. I usually forget that. So, an
old barbarian.
I know that is not the case when I go back in Yunlin. Two or three
years ago, one day I went to Yunlin County Hall for something, and I
stood in an office to fill a form. A young lady drew a chair to me and
said, in my mother tongue: "A-peh, li chia che." (Sir = Elder Uncle,
please sit here.) That sounded so familiar and so friendly, though she
also reminded me that I was an old man.

from MR L.'

VHuang said...

Dan, Thanks for the quick response. I can cry, scream, and shout all day long to the world about the mistreatment to “阿兜仔,” the truth is not many will listen and even fewer will take my words for it. A simple clarification from you, the author of the original article, the one who broadcasted to the world that “阿兜仔” is “大鼻子的人,” will be a hundred times more persuasive. A poor hard-working soul, I am signing off now.

dan said...

Dear VHuang,
I see your point. I will try to do this. I understand better now. Adoah does not mean BIG NOSE PEOPLE. That was MY mistake! I will try to correct this in future articles..... thank you, sir

Dan

VHuang said...

Dan,

Thank you for being patient with me and being gracious in responding to my blasts.
Indeed, all I am asking of you is to restore “阿兜仔” its true color and flavor; only by doing so, all the discussions and opinion polls would make sense. A question lingers in my mind: I can’t help wondering how many of your western friends, who are so pained and disgusted at being referred to as “阿兜仔,” are also being misguided into believing “阿兜仔” means “a person with big nose?”

You mentioned an example where even the in-laws would call their western son-in-laws as “阿兜仔” to the face. I concur with you that, even called in an affection way, “阿兜仔” should never be used by the in-laws or anyone else when interact directly. The only exception is as I mentioned earlier: as a joke among friends as long as the western friend does not mind. Also, if the western names are too much for the in-laws’ tongs to handle, a personalized Taiwanese nickname or an abbreviated, easy to pronounced English name should be provided to them. Otherwise, it’s pretty awkward for the older generation to squeeze out names like Frederick, Christopher, Leonardo, etc.

For decades, the Taiwanese language has been suppressed and degraded to “low-class,” that only the older and the lowly educated Taiwanese would speak such language. Consequently, it’s not a surprise to me that the young, beautiful young Taiwanese lady in her 20s would converse with you in Mandarin even though you guys talked to her in Taiwanese. It’s a prevailing and worrisome fact that many young Taiwanese are deserting their own mother language as a way of projecting a false sense of “being a higher class.” Believe it or not, I WAS one of them, who not only feel awkward speaking Taiwanese in public, but also made fun of the broken Mandarin spoken by some of those who came from southern part of Taiwan. Like you, I am still learning Taiwanese, not there yet, only half-bottled, but I will keep learning. I am now a firm believer of treasuring your own culture and language, preserving your own history, and standing tall to defend it.

Now, I hope you understand why I react so strongly to your letter to the Liberty Times. In a way, you are helping to drown (further disgrace) a beautiful language that is already unjustly put in hot water and is on the verge of sinking.

A side note: I call my brother “Ah-Bin” and my sister “Ah-lei-ah”. My mom calls me in the same fashion. The “Ah”, as suffix or prefix to the name, is just a way of addressing close family members and friends. It’s a term of endearment.

I am looking forward to reading your future articles in the Liberty Times. Cheers.

dan said...

So we now have three ways to write ADOAH in Chinese characters, which one is the best and most accurate way? Or doesn't it make a difference, all three are okay in print?

1. 阿凸仔
2. 阿兜仔
3. 阿啄仔

Does anyone know?

It's all BUSASA to me....

dan said...

Dear VHuang , above post:

I am patient with you because you are my teacher and I am listening to everything you say. I am just an outsider here, trying to undertand things that are not easy for an outsider to understand or decipher. But you, and the other people commenting here, are teaching me. MY COMMENTS TO YOU IN CAPITAL LETTERS, as yesterDAY...

Thank you for being patient with me and being gracious in responding to my blasts. NOT BLASTS AT ALL. YOUR COMMENTS ARE GOOD AND I AM LEARNING FROM YOU. KEEP TEACHING ME.

Indeed, all I am asking of you is to restore “阿兜仔” its true color and flavor; only by doing so, all the discussions and opinion polls would make sense. I AGREE. BUT HOW? I HAVE HEARD FROM MANY TAIWANESE PEOPLE THAT IN FACT ADAOH MEANS "TALL NOSE" PERSON AND THAT IT IS A WORD THAT TAIWANESE PEOPLE CREATED TO TALK ABOUT WESTERNERS WHO CAME HERE LONG AGO AND ARE STILL HERE AND THAT THE WORD IS NOT NICE!. NOT NICE. TAIWANESE PEOPLE WHO ARE MY GOOD FRIENDS AND WHOM I TRUST TOLD ME ADOAH IS IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS AH-LA-AH for mainlander visitors coming here NOW, IN SAME LEAGUE AS HUAN NA FOR ABORIGNAL PEOPLE WHO LIVED HERE FOR CENTURIES BEFORE THE HAN PEOPLE CAME HERE AND SAME LEAGUE AS AH BUN AH FOR BAD WORD FOR JAPANESE. ADOAH MEANS PROMINENT NOSE, YES OR NO? AND IT IS A WORD THAT WAS NEVER MEANT O BE HEARD OR UNDERSTOOD BY ADOAH PEOPLE. YES OR NO?

A question lingers in my mind: I can’t help wondering how many of your Western friends, who are so [pained] and [disgusted] at being referred to as “阿兜仔,” are also being misguided into believing “阿兜仔” means “a person with big nose?” THEY BELIEVE IT MEANS PROMINENT NOSE, HIGH NOSE, TALL NOSE, which, VHuang, is the same thing as BIG NOSE. YES OR NO? AND THEY ARE NOT PAINED OR DISGUSTED. THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH. THEY ALL LOVE TAIWAN, TOO. THEY JUST DON'T LIKE BEING CALLED TALL NOSE BEHIND THEIR BACKS AND ON TV SINCE THEY KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD. WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE SLANT EYES ON TV IN THE USA OR FACE TO FACE AND WE CAN SAY TO YOU "OH YOUR SLANTED EYES ARE BEAUTIFUL THAT IS WHY WE CALL YOU SLANT EYES. VHuang, SLANT EYES IS A SLUR AND AN INSULT IN THE USA AND CANADA AND EUROPE. YES OR NO?

You mentioned an example where even the in-laws would call their western son-in-laws as “阿兜仔” to the face. AND BEHIND THEIR BACKS, THINKING THE SONS IN LAW CANNOT HEAR OR UNDERSTAND.....

I concur with you that, even called in an affectionate way, “阿兜仔” should never be used by the in-laws or anyone else when interact directly. YOU AGREE ON THIS? WOW. TIME TO CELEBRATE. NOW WE ARE SEEING EYE TO EYE, er, NOSE TO NOSE. SMILE! WE AGREE. MY WESTERN FRIENDS WILL BE GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU SAID THIS TO ME. CAN I TELL THEM?

The only exception is as I mentioned earlier: as a joke among friends as long as the western friend does not mind. THE WESTERN FRIEND MINDS. ASK HIM!

Also, if the western names are too much for the in-laws’ tongs [HEADS]to handle, a personalized Taiwanese nickname or an abbreviated, easy to pronounced English name should be provided to them. GOOD IDEA.

Otherwise, it’s pretty awkward for the older generation to squeeze out names like Frederick, Christopher, Leonardo, etc. AGREED. A NICKNAME WOULD BE FINE. EVEN CALLING HIM "MY SON IN LAW" or OUR NIECE'S HUSBAND. WHAT"S WRONG WITH CALLING A SPADE A SPADE?

dan said...

continued:

For decades, the Taiwanese language has been suppressed and degraded to “low-class,” that only the older and the lowly educated Taiwanese would speak such language. Consequently, it’s not a surprise to me that the young, beautiful young Taiwanese lady in her 20s would converse with you in Mandarin even though you guys talked to her in Taiwanese. It’s a prevailing and worrisome fact that many young Taiwanese are deserting their own mother language as a way of projecting a false sense of “being a higher class.”
THAT LADY WAS NOT TALKING TO ME< READ THAT AGAIN, THAT WAS A LETTER FROM A TAIWANESE MAN TO ME... AND SHE WAS TAUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF THE TAIWANESE LANGUAGE. THAT IS SAD. I SUPPORT THE TAIWANESE LANGUAGE 99 percent, except for ADOAH. SMILE. TAIWANESE IS A GREAT LANGUAGE. I LOVE IT. THE CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED AGAINST THE TAIWANESE LANGUAGE ARE TERRIBLE. I KNOW ALL ABOUT THAT. I HATE THAT HISTORY OF SUPPRESSING TAIWAWANESE. IT IS A COLORFUL, EARTHY WONDERFUL LANGUAGE.

Believe it or not, I WAS one of them, who not only feel awkward speaking Taiwanese in public, but also made fun of the broken Mandarin spoken by some of those who came from southern part of Taiwan. WOW! REALLY? YOU? BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND. I KNOW THE HISTORY OF TAIWAN.... SIGH...

Like you, I am still learning Taiwanese, not there yet, only half-bottled, but I will keep learning. YOU ARE WAY AHEAD OF ME. I ONLY KNOW THREE IDIOMS: BUSASA, BO HEE HAY MA HER and BON LA GWAM SEIKO....

I am now a firm believer of treasuring your own culture and language, preserving your own history, and standing tall to defend it. YES YES YES. and I SUPPORT YOU 1000000 percent.

Now, I hope you understand why I react so strongly to your letter to the Liberty Times. YES YES

In a way, you are helping to drown (further disgrace) a beautiful language that is already unjustly put in hot water and is on the verge of sinking. I SEE YOUR POINT NOW. BUT THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION. MY INTENTION WAS TO POINT OUT THAT ADOAH SHOULD NOT BE USED IN TODAY'S WORLD OF INTERNATIONAL TAIWAN. WHAT IS PRESIDENT OBAMA CAME HERE AND SOMEONE CALLED HIM AN ADOAH? WOULD THAT BE PROPER? BUT YOU DON'T CALL BLACKS ADOAH, DO YOU? YOU CALL THEM o-LANG, right? WHAT I MEAN IS THIS: IF TAIWAN WANTS TO BE PART OF THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY, CERTAIN WAYS OF SHOWING RESPECT TO FOREIGNERS MUST BE SHOWN IN ALL COUNTRIES. GETTING RID OF ADAOH WORD IS ONE WAY TO SHOW RESPECT TO WESTERNERS,...EVEN THOUGH THE WORD HAS SPECIAL NOSTALIGIC HISTORY TO THE OLD GENERATION, I AGREE. BUT IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON. THIS is 2009, not 1958.... YES OR NO?

A side note: I call my brother “Ah-Bin” and my sister “Ah-lei-ah”. My mom calls me in the same fashion. The “Ah”, as suffix or prefix to the name, is just a way of addressing close family members and friends. It’s a term of endearment. YES. I KNOW THIS STYLE AND IT IS A GOOD WAY TO USE TAIWANESE, YES YES YES. MY FRIENDS HERE CALL ME Ah-Dan. I LOVE IT.

I am looking forward to reading your future articles in the Liberty Times. IF I GET ANOTHER CHANCE, I WILL WRITE MORE ARTICLERS. I HOPE SO. I HAVE ENJOYED THIS LEARNING CURVE VERY MUCH AND I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR GOOD COMMENTS, VHUANG.

Biko Lang,
Friend of Taiwan, champion of the Taiwanese language, singer of the "Amah Koon Beiki" song. Did you hear it yet:

http://amahsong101.blogspot.com

that's me on YOUTUBE, go look. Over 12,000 people around the world have viewed it....it is my way of introducing the beauty of the Taiwanese language to people overseas.....

Anonymous said...

Dear Biko Lang

That man who wrote the letter to the Liberty Times on July 14, signing himself as Huang Da Her...
....in his letter, it seems ....He thinks that Singapore government set a good example for changing a traditional place name to a "civilized" one, and he regrets that Taiwan government has not paid much attention to this.
According to him, the traditional name of a community in central Singapore is "Ang-mo Kio" (Red Hair Bridge) and, because it refers to Caucasian Westerners (I think it is also based on the early modern history when the Dutch were in Southern East Asia, including Taiwan), so the government thinks it is a bad name, so it changed it to "Hung Mo Kio" (Great Prosperity Bridge) (in Mandarin, Great Prosperity and Red Hair sound similar).

You know, many place names in Taiwan are also called Red Hair Something, like Red Hair Castle in Tamsui and Tainan, Red Hair Harbor in Kaoshiung and Sinchu, and Red Hair Well, Red Hair House, Red Hair Pool, Red Hair Road, Red Hair Hut, etc. According to Mr Yellow Great River, these are surely bad names and should all be changed to a name like "Great Prosperity Something"?

Do you know how Taiwanese called cement? ''Ang-mo-thoo'' (red hair soil)! I guess it is because cement was brought in by Westerners. Maybe we should change our language again, so to give cement a civilized name?

Let's talk about the name of Kaoshiung.

Earlier, before Japanese came, the name is "Ta-kao" and Taiwanese people used Han Characters to imitate its sound and wrote it as "打狗". According to Chinese, the Characters mean "Hit Dog". So is it a vulgar name? In the beginning it has nothing to do with anyone hitting any dog, it's just a sound, originates in early aboriginal people living there and its original meaning has long been forgotten--in fact the aboriginal language was dead long time ago and the aborigines' descendants have "dissolved and merged" into/among today's Taiwanese people, if they were not extinct. (As a people, they are extinct. And their features, physical or cultural, no longer recognized among Taiwanese people.)
Then came the Japanese, and they thought "Hit Dog" was a vulgar name and changed it to "高雄" (In Chinese, the Characters mean "High and Grand", I guess). But, these Characters pronounced as Japanese is exactly the same as its Taiwanese name, that is "Ta-ka-o". See, the Japanese kept the sound, though changed the Characters.
Then came the exile Chinese government, KMT kept the Characters (I guess they agreed that it's a "civilized" name), but the sound when pronounced in Mandarin becomes "Kao-shiung". At the mean time, Taiwanese people forget its original sound and read the Characters as "Ko-hiong".
That's how a "savage" people tamed or extinguished. That's how a "vulgar" language is tamed and extinguished.

continued....

Anonymous said...

continued from above....

Be honest, I think "Ta-kao" is a beautiful name, even if it means "Hit Dog"--and I know it doesn't, at least doesn't in the beginning; and I like to see the name keeping some of its history, reminding us that part of our ancestors are those aboriginal people.

Let's come back to Mr Huang Da He, he regrets that Taiwan government has paid little attention to this.
I think he's wrong. As the "Hit Dog" example shows, not only the exile Chinese government and KMT and the high class mainlanders paid much attention to this, but also the Japanese government and even the Ch'ing government.

I believe you know that Chia-yi was called "Ti-lo-san" long time ago. I think "Ti-lo-san" is also originated from some aboriginal language, but when it was written in Chinese Characters to imitate its sound, unfortunately, my ancestors chose "vulgar" Characters again, "豬玀山" (Pig Mountain, or Hog Land). But, really, it has nothing to do with any pig or even any mountain. Then, after a rebellion was suppressed, the Ch'ing government changed its name to "Chia-yi" (嘉義, Praising the Righteous, or Approving the Volunteer), and then Taiwanese people read the Characters in Ho-lo pronunciation as "Ka-gi". So, bye-bye to Ti-lo-san.

As for VHuang's comments here, above, I guess he felt hurt by ''Mr Yellow Great River'''s letter to the Liberty Times. Maybe he also feels hurt because it reminds him of the history, by something like I just mentioned.

signed
fr friend in Taipei

Anonymous said...

Funny how VHuang claims that no one will ever say "Adogah" to our faces. Not just my nephews and nieces, but strangers -- and even, as you pointed out, so-called "entertainers" will shout it out in the park.

And I don't know if I mentioned this in an earlier mail, but no matter how many people say that "Adogah doesn't mean 'big nose,' that in fact, according to them it means 'high nose,'" .....we still don't say "high nose" in English,..... so "big nose" is the correct translation for English.

Signed

Western man married to Taiwanese woman in central Taiwan and happy here for 20 years....

Biko said...

When a top music talent in Taipei, a Taiwanese man educated at Harvard, was asked if he know the real meaning of ADOAH, he replied:

"I'm aware of the term, BUT I had no idea it meant ''big nosed people'',..... I don't use it and neither do my circle of friends living in metropolitan Taipei. ......From what I understand it's supposed to be a somewhat endearing catch-all nickname, .....but if the recipient finds it insulting than sure we should stop using it."

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

''According to what I have heard and had verified by several Taiwanese, A-dok-a originally meant something like Christian or missionary (阿督仔, 督 as in 基督教, Christianity) because most white faces around used to be missionaries. It is a homophone to "pointed nose" or however you prefer to translate it and has now taken on that meaning as there are fewer and fewer missionaries around.''

July 14, 2009 10:01 PM

Anonymous said...

A Taiwanese newspaper editor says:

"I think it's a misunderstanding about adoah meaning big nose or tall nose. "Atoah" means 阿督仔 that is because
when foreigners fisrt came to Taiwan.Most of them are priests or
信基督.So they are called "atoah". Because similar pronounciation,
"atoah" transforms to "big nose." The definitions of "atoah" not
necessarily bad. ..."

VHuang said...

fr friend in Taipei wrote:
“Maybe he(VHUANG) also feels hurt because it reminds him of the history, by something like I just mentioned.”

Yes, you fully understand my pain. Thanks for a very informative writing. It’s a shame that not many Taiwanese, including myself, have a good grasp of the Taiwanese history.

VHuang said...

To Western man married to Taiwanese woman in central Taiwan and happy here for 20 years:

Funny how VHuang claims that no one will ever say "Adogah" to our faces
*THERE IS ALWAYS EXCEPTIOIN TO EVERYTHING. SURELY YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IT IS RARE THAT A TOTAL STRANGER WOULD CALL YOU ADOAH IN YOUR FACE. AS TO YOUR IN-LAWS, YOUR NIECES, AND NEPHEWS…THEY ARE JUST LIKE YOUR CLOSE TAIWANESE FRIENDS WHO MIGHT BE DOING SO IN A PLAYFUL WAY SINCE YOU NEVER OPENLY VOICE YOUR OBJETION. PLEASE BE HONEST WITH THEM.

...we still don't say "high nose" in English,..... so "big nose" is the correct translation for English.
*WOW, THAT’S PRETTY SELF-CENTERED, DON’T YOU THINK? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A TAIWANESE SLANG AND WHAT IT REALLY STANDS FOR. YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING TO WHAT TAIWANESE HAS TO SAY, NOT WHAT YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS CAPABLE OF TRANSLATING INTO. I WOULD SAY “TALL AND POINTED,” NOT “BIG NOSE,” IS THE CORRECT TRANSLATION FOR TAIWANESE.

VHuang said...

Dan, my two cents:
None of (凸, 兜, 啄) provide you the visual effect of “high nose-bridge and pointed nose-tip.” However, if you are looking for the sound effect, 啄 is the one that’s closest to the Taiwanese pronunciation; 兜 is a close second; and 凸 a distant third (in fact, it should be dropped as it reads like a-tu-ah).

VHuang said...

Dan,
The top music talent in Taipei said
"I'm aware of the term, BUT I had no idea it meant ''big nosed people'',.....

**AS I WARNED IN MY EARLIER POSTING (2ND OR 3RD), YOUR LETTER IS GOING TO MISLEAD MANY MORE WHO NEVER USE THE WORD BEFORE OR ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ITS MEANING TO NOW BELIEVING THAT THIS TAIWANESE SLANG IS INSULTING AND DESRESPECTFUL TO THE WESTERNERS.

VHuang said...

Dan,

I tried my best to answer your questions:
SAME LEAGUE or not?
*Your friends are off again: (ADOAH) and (AH-LA-AH, HUAN NA, AH BUN AH) are in two different leagues – one positive, one negative.

ADOAH MEANS PROMINENT NOSE, YES OR NO?
*Adoah refers to (white) westerners who have distinct noses that are tall and pointed, a feature that is very different from that of the local people and is regarded as beautiful. It’s fine that you pick the word “Prominent” to describe a nose that is distinctively standing out. In no way it means “huge nose,” an ugly feature in the eyes of most people.

AND IT IS A WORD THAT WAS NEVER MEANT O BE HEARD OR UNDERSTOOD BY ADOAH PEOPLE. YES OR NO?
*Is “Yankee” or “Yank” a word that was never meant to be heard or understood by the northerners in the USA?

THEY BELIEVE IT MEANS PROMINENT NOSE, HIGH NOSE, TALL NOSE, which, VHuang, is the same thing as BIG NOSE. YES OR NO?
*No. They are not the same, not from a Taiwanese perspective anyway. The essence is tall & pointed nose.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE SLANT EYES ON TV IN THE USA OR FACE TO FACE AND WE CAN SAY TO YOU "OH YOUR SLANTED EYES ARE BEAUTIFUL THAT IS WHY WE CALL YOU SLANT EYES. VHuang, SLANT EYES IS A SLUR AND AN INSULT IN THE USA AND CANADA AND EUROPE. YES OR NO?
*You missed my point. I already told you that I am against calling westerners ADOAH face to face or in public. And I believe with time and the promotion of mutual understanding among different nationalities, some racial-specific slang words will naturally run their courses. If you look back to my second posting you will see the following statement showing that I am open to public opinion: “It’s perfectly OK to write to get public opinion on the use of “阿兜仔,” but please get the definition right first.” You see, the underlining problem that I have is that you first painted a negative image on the word “阿兜仔” and then you ask the public if they would like to continue the usage of such words. Is that a logical and sensible thing to do?

(to be continued)

VHuang said...

(continued from above)
A NICKNAME WOULD BE FINE. EVEN CALLING HIM "MY SON IN LAW" or OUR NIECE'S HUSBAND. WHAT"S WRONG WITH CALLING A SPADE A SPADE?
*I agree and I believe the majority of the Taiwanese in-laws are already referring to their son-in-laws by names or as you suggested above. ADOAH is normally used in private conversation when referring to the westerners who are total strangers.

THAT LADY WAS NOT TALKING TO ME< READ THAT AGAIN…
*Yes, I notice my mistake as well, a result of multi-tasking. I browsed through a couple of long comments in a hurry. Sorry.

WHAT IS PRESIDENT OBAMA CAME HERE AND SOMEONE CALLED HIM AN ADOAH?
WOULD THAT BE PROPER?
*It will not be proper because (1) President Obama will be surrounded by an army of security forces that an ordinary Taiwanese will not be able to call him any names to his face, and (2) President Obama is a black. No, it is not proper even it is ex-president Bush and if situation allows. Adoah is simply a slang, a very informal reference to the white people.

BUT YOU DON'T CALL BLACKS ADOAH, DO YOU? YOU CALL THEM o-LANG, right?
*No, we don’t call blacks adoah simply because they don’t possess the same kind of distinct high and pointed noses. Yes, we refer to Blacks o-Lang. In Mandarin, it is Lau-hey (老黑) or Hey-Quei (黑鬼) depending on your mood. On the same line, the westerners are either called Lau-wyi (老外, which includes all foreigners, not just white) or yang-quei-zhi (洋鬼子). In China and Hong Kong, it’s Quei-lau (鬼老), and in Singarpore, it’s (紅毛番).

EVEN THOUGH THE WORD HAS SPECIAL NOSTALIGIC HISTORY TO THE OLD GENERATION, I AGREE. BUT IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON. THIS is 2009, not 1958.... YES OR NO?
*As I pointed out again and again, with time and understanding, the racially inspired slang will fade away gradually and naturally without government prohibits it. Nowadays, westerners are not a rare presence in Taiwan any more. I don’t see children pointing at them and calling out with excitement: “Adoah, Adoah” that often.

"Amah Koon Beiki" song. Did you hear it yet:
*Just heard it; it’s hilarious. You are every bit as I imagine you would be. No wonder you have so many enthusiastic Taiwanese friends.

dan said...

Dear VHang,above:

A very good annotated review of our comments back and forth, you and I, and all your points are well taken. I enjoy our little chats here. Just one small point I need to make, two actually, and I hope you will understand me, silly singer of songs that I am -- hehe --

1. you are right: adoah just means tall and prominent nose, to Taiwanese speakers...BUT IN ENGLISH WE ONLY HAVE TWO WORDS FOR NOSES: BIG or SMALL. WE DO NOT SAY "HE HAS A PROMINENT NOSE." WE JUST USE THE WORDS BIG OR SMALL to describe NOSES ON HUMAN BEINGS. SO when foreigners HEAR ADAOH, even they learn it means PROMINENT TALL NOSE, THEY HEAR IT IN THEIR MINDS AS BIG NOSE. DO YOU SEE MY POINT? YOU SAY IT ONE WAY, WE HEAR IT ANOTHER WAY -- and NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET......but we ARE having a good discussion and thanks!

2. [EVEN THOUGH THE WORD HAS SPECIAL NOSTALIGIC HISTORY TO THE OLD GENERATION, I AGREE. BUT IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON. THIS is 2009, not 1958.... YES OR NO? ]

YOU REPLIED: "*As I pointed out again and again, with time and understanding, the racially inspired slang will fade away gradually and naturally without government prohibits it. Nowadays, westerners are not a rare presence in Taiwan any more.

I don’t see children pointing at them and calling out with excitement: “Adoah, Adoah” that often.

VHUANG, YOU DO NOT HEAR CHILDREN SAYING ADOAH RIGHT TO OUR FACES ON THE STREET AND IN CRAM SCHOOLS EVERY DAY, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT THERE. TRUST ME. THE KIDS SAY IT EVERYDAY. JUST TODAY I WAS RIDING MY BICYCLE NEAR A COFFEE SHOP WHERE THERE WAS A CRAM SCHOOL AND THE KIDS WERE ON THE SIDEWALK WAITING FOR THE PARENTS TO PICK THEM UP AND WHEN I WENT BY ON MY RED BICYCLE, THE KIDS SAID "LOOK, THERE'S AN ADOAH!" THIS HAPPENS EVERY DAY IN TAIWAN, 24/7. YOU DON'T KNOW THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A WHITE MAN IN TAIWAN......

and

3.

"Amah Koon Beiki" song. *Just heard it; it’s hilarious. You are every bit as I imagine you would be. No wonder you have so many enthusiastic Taiwanese friends. "

MY TAIWAN FRIENDS TAUGHT ME ALL THE WORDS TO THAT SONG, I JUST COLLECTED THEM AND PUT THEM TOGETHER. EVEN THE TITLE, AMAH KOON BEIKI, WAS GIVEN TO ME BY MY GOOD FRIEND A-HORN, 60 years old, when i asked him to teach me more good Taiwanese phrases. WHEN I HEARD THAT AND ASKED WHAT IT MEANT, I HAD MY SONG TITLE! I KNEW IT. SO THE SONG IS ABOUT A GRANDMA WHO CANNOT SLEEP. AND DO YOU KNOW WHY SHE CANNOT SLEEP? ASK ME AND I WILL TELL YOU HERE. IT IS ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING STORY..... I BET YOU DON'T KNOW WHY SHE CANNOT SLEEP, BUT TAKE A GUESS.

-- yr friend

Biko

dan said...

VHuang

Again YOU ARE WROMG HERE: RE

"*I agree and I believe the majority of the Taiwanese in-laws are already referring to their son-in-laws by names or as you suggested above. ADOAH is normally used in private conversation when referring to the westerners who are total strangers. "

THEY ARE NOT REFERRING TO THEIR SONS in LAW BY NAMES. AT ALL FAMILY GATHERINGS, THEY TALK ABOUT SON IN LAW AS ADOAH AND THEY ALL THINK IT IS VERY FUNNY , EVRYONE EXCEPT LONG SUFFERING SON IN LAW WHO LOVES HIS WIFE AND LOVES HIS FATHER IN LAW AND LOVES HIS MOTHER IN LAW AND LOVES ALL THE RELATIVES BUT HE CANNOT UNDERSTAMD WHY THEY NEED TO CALL HIM MR PROMINENT NOSE, EVEN AFTER 12 YEARS OF MARRIAGE........THIS IS TRUE. YOU DON"T KNOW, AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT IN THAT SITUATION.

respectfully submitted, I am

Biko Lang
singer, songwriter,
dreamer, schemer

VHuang said...

Dan,

You wrote: BUT IN ENGLISH WE ONLY HAVE TWO WORDS FOR NOSES: BIG or SMALL. WE DO NOT SAY "HE HAS A PROMINENT NOSE." WE JUST USE THE WORDS BIG OR SMALL to describe NOSES ON HUMAN BEINGS...

**I am puzzled at your and your friend's reasoning as to why it HAS to be either "big nose" or “small nose” and nothing else in English. Aren’t there Americans with average-size, “Happy-Medium noses?” With all the nouns, adjectives, and a lot more weapons at your disposal, you have a very powerful language to describe even the most complex, intangible human emotions. And we are short of better words for a little, simple, tangible body part on our faces? A quick Googling easily generated a handful of interesting terms and images that fittingly illustrate noses in different sizes and shapes: small, large, chiseled, or aquiline nose; nose with straight, convex, concave profile; nose with upward, downward, or horizontal profile, etc. Like playing Lego, any creative combinations of the above will present you an interesting array of “prominent noses.” Is it grammatically wrong or politically incorrect to state that “Barbara Streisand, my favorite singer, is famous for her prominent nose, which is long and slightly crooked?” Or am I only permitted to say that “Barbara Streisand, my favorite singer, is famous for her prominent nose, which is BIG, BIG, BIG?” If you allow me the flexibility using the descriptive English words, why bind yourself in a little world of “Big and Small?” Translation is never easy, but one should try his/her best to capture the true meaning, never knowingly distorting the original intent. I am scratching my head trying to figure out why you refused to accept the following: “Caucasians in Taiwan are sometimes referred to as A-do-ah, a slang highlighting their prominent noses, which are tall and pointed, a feature that is admired by the locals. “ If you accept the well-meaning “tall and pointed nose” in Taiwanese, why insist on fixing it into unpleasant “Big Nose” in English, and then complain about being labeled “Bid Noser?” Mind boggling!!! (shaking my head)

As for your being called A-do-ah 10 times a day in your face and in public, I am truly at a loss of finding better words to re-state my position. We are beating on the same dead horses again and again, only from different angles. Let me try one more time summarizing my point of view and see if we finally meet nose-to-nose:
(1) My understanding of A-do-ah, from my upbringing, is “a white westerner who has high nose-bridge and pointed nose-tip”
(2) I consider A-do-ah a harmless, neutral, even good-nature local slang, used in private term to refer to an individual or a group of westerners.
(3) I agree it’s inappropriate calling westerners A-do-ah in their faces and in public.
(4) If friends or relatives calling a westerner (like son-in-law) A-do-ah instead of his/her name, it’s up to the westerner to label with them and insist on “name rectification.”

You don’t have to agree with me on any or every one of the above, but at least you should have a clear picture of where I stand, thus freeing us from the chasing-its-own-tail kind of debates, A hard-working worker-bee, I am now hardly working. 

dan said...

Dear VHuang,

I agree with everything you said above. re:

You don’t have to agree with me on any or every one of the above, but at least you should have a clear picture of where I stand, thus freeing us from the chasing-its-own-tail kind of debates, A hard-working worker-bee, I am now hardly working.

Agreed! More later.....

Just one note: it's true, in English, even though there are many extra words for noses, like you outlined above, we only say big or small about noses. Barbara Streisand has a big nose. Bai Bin Bin has a small nose. Period. Those are only terms we use in English for noses.

Have you ever heard of a wax apple nose in Taiwanese, some Taiwanese call the noses of their countrymen and countrywomen as ''lianwu'', I am sure you know this? Is it a compliment? Yes or No? I rest my case. SMILE.

VHuang said...

Dear Dan,

Ready to rest your case on the Noses already? Not so fast.

You wrote:
Just one note: it's true, in English, even though there are many extra words for noses, like you outlined above, we only say big or small about noses. Barbara Streisand has a big nose. Bai Bin Bin has a small nose. Period. Those are only terms we use in English for noses.

(My response:) Again, it is beyond my comprehension so I sought help from my American friend Kathy by sending her my 7/15 posting on NOSES and your response. She wrote back:
“I have to agree with you. I would not restrict your description of noses just to big or small. You are being more descriptive and not necessarily negative in your description of the nose. I think if he limits himself to just to 2 versions of a nose (big or small); he is not doing the justice to the English language. It is just my opinion.” Yes, it’s only Kathy’s own opinion, but it does provide a different view from an American’s perspective, isn’t it?

You also wrote:
Have you ever heard of a wax apple nose in Taiwanese, some Taiwanese call the noses of their countrymen and countrywomen as ''lianwu'', I am sure you know this? Is it a compliment? Yes or No? I rest my case. SMILE.

(My response:) “Lianwu” accurately captures a person’s prominent nose in that it is not only flat, big, wide, thick, and red, it also has a fat, rounded nose-tip. In English, it actually is a very good use of metaphor to detail the size and shape of that particular nose; you can almost “see” that nose. As you learned more Taiwanese language, you will find many Taiwanese slang (including a-do-ah) are in this league – very primitive, in its purest and simplest form, yet says a lot and provides an excellent visual effect. That being said, contrary to “a-do-ah,” “Lianwu nose” or “wax apple nose” is definitely not a complimentary word as it negatively projects a laughable image. Nowadays, many young Taiwanese will go through great length to have their noses “enhanced” to look like an “a-do-ah’ but never the “Lianwu.” See the difference?

Now, we can both rest our cases on NOSES…I hope.

I do enjoy chatting with you and wish you great success with your "Amah Koon Beiki" song. I personally have contributed at least 10 counts to it even though I am still busasa on exactly why Amah has difficulty fallen sleep.

VH.

VHuang said...

Dan,

One last comment on NOSE, I promise…

I thought you might be interested to learn that in Mandarin, there are also many good metaphoric words for the nose: 鷹勾鼻, 酒糟鼻,朝天鼻,蜂巢鼻,豬八戒鼻, etc. They are certainly not complimentary but are perfect words to pinpoint a person’s distinct nose, in writing or in private conversation (behind that person’s back of course). Ask your Taiwanese friends to translate for you; you will have a good laugh. We all know a picture is worth or better than a thousand words; here we have some local slang that are also better than a thousand words. I am sure there are many like-kind metaphor for noses that people use in English world.

You see, A-do-ah, Lainwu nose, 朝天鼻, even Big nose, and Small nose - some meant well and some downright cruel - all share the same fate: they must be used in secrecy (except in story writing to describe a person in detail); they cannot be used to the face of the targeted-person, nor can they be mentioned or called out in public.

Now I am absolutely done with Noses.

dan said...

A Western man tells me today, a longtime resident in Taiwan, married, with kids:

"When will people learn that their intentions are irrelevant: only the effects of what they say are important. Are we really that backward as a species that the majority of us think that this is a complex issue?"

Anonymous said...

Another person I know, an American married to an Aborigine woman in central Taiwan, says:

"I like being called 阿凸仔 ......it's not offensive at all.... really, it isnt."

[Editor's note: -- it's good to hear all points of view. Not all Westerners in Taiwan dislike the term adoah, some even like it, as the man above says. that's important to know, too.]

dan said...

Dear VHuang,,

As usual, I enjoy all your comments here, and the give and take on both our parts. That said, your American friend Kathy has a good point and she's right. But she does not live in Taiwan, correct? -- and so she does not understand what this tempest in a teapot in all about, this brouhahahahahahaha on a blog. But her points are well said and well taken. Case closed. Enough of noses.

Question: if lianwu is not complimentary to the hearer of the word, why is adoah complimentary to the hearer of the word (the Westerners who hear it every day?) You see, if lianwu is a bit mischievous, can't you now admit that adoah is a bit.....mischievous.....but not an insult at all. Just a bit mischievous and the main thing is, VHuang, most adoah do not like to hear that word. Period. If we don't like hearing it, might it not be a good idea to stop using it, even though it has a rich history for speakers of Taiwanse? Just a question. For YOU to answer. Not me. I am not telling anyone what to do. The choice belongs to the Taiwanese people. To adoah or not to adoah, that is the question..... SMILE.

ACTUTALLY, I don't see much of a difference between the use of adoah and the use of lianwu.....

So okay, let's be done with NOSES. ENOUGH SAID. CASE CLOSED. GOOD DISCUSSION.

One Western friend of mine told me today: "I like being called 阿凸仔 it's not offensive at all.... really it isnt."


Another told me: "When will people learn that their intentions are irrelevant: only the effects of what they say are important. Are we really that backward as a species that the majority of us think that this is a complex issue? "

DONE WITH NOSES. FOR NOW.

dan said...

Dear VHuang,

Why AMAH cannot sleep? Good question. Seems that in this old story I was told by a group of friendly ojisans one night on a porch while sipping Taiwan Beer into the wee hours above a Chinese medicine pharmacy store, GRANDMA cannot sleep because....it's the night before Lunar New Year, I mean, it's New Year's Eve, and in the morning, she is supposed to give a red envelope to her two grandchildren who are visiting for the holidays, and because this was a long time ago, and she is a farmer's wife, she is poor and does not have a lot of money, so all night she tosses and turns, worrying about what she can give her two grandchildren, so AMAH KOON BEIKI....... but in the morning, there is no problem, because the Bedroom Goddess has wonderfully placed a red envelope for each grandchild into the grandmother's desk drawer, and with those two hong bao, she can fulfill her grandmotherly duties to her grandkids, and all ends well. THAT is why Grandma Cannot Sleep.

Did you ever hear that story before?

VHuang said...

Dan,
No, I never heard of that story, but I can certainly relay to how Amah felt. Looking back, I bet my parents went through the same tosses and turns before the Lunar Year’s Eve as well. I grew up in a financially strained family of 10 – grandpa, grandma, dad, mom, and 6 children - in a rural country side. The only source of income was my dad’s humble salary. I am not sure dad even graduated from the elementary school, because often times he had to help out in the construction site during school days. As you can imagine, we had a tough and rough lives growing up. I remember vividly that when I was a young kid, my mom would politely “confiscate” the red envelops I received as soon as the guests left the house, and “re-package” them to pass out when the kids of other relatives came to say “kong-xi”. We rarely had new clothes or new shoes to welcome the New Year. Nonetheless, we were blessed to have plenty of love from my dad and mom. Without their unconditional love and their sacrifice, I know I will not be here chatting with you.

dan said...

Dear VHuang,

Your letter was very moving and it touches my heart. Thanks for sharing that here. And you are so right, LOVE is number one. Rich or poor, middle class or homeless, love is what makes the world go round. Without it, we are nothing.... Wonderful letter.

I feel you are a poet and a writer. I hope to read your book about your life someday.

Yr loyal reader,

-- Biko Lang

VHuang said...

Dan,
I work in the information technology sector.
I will bookmark your website and visit/chat when I can.
For now, Cheers…with Taiwan Beer!!!

Anonymous said...

In Response to “Adoah”

-By Terry Huang

Article in Liberty Times, July 14

translation

Dear Sir

Not long ago, a western Caucasian named Biko Lang wrote a letter to Liberty Times Forum, appealing to Taiwanese: “please do not call me Adoah”! Because, to his understanding, the word “Adoah” sounds humiliation if not insult. Thus, the term should be refrained at least from the public occasion.


I concur with Biko. I had opportunity for close contacts with western missionaries in my youth hood, and then worked for MAAG later as an interpreter. My encounters with western Caucasians are wide and stretched. During that tenure, I had never used “Adoah” to address any of them. Regretfully, “Adoah” is still commonly used by some sectors in Taiwan, mainly in Taiwanese speaking ethnic. But there is similar situation in Singapore too. The Hokkien dialect ethnic Singaporeans are accustomed to address western Caucasians “Ang-Mo**” or “Ang-Mo Kau” depends on occasions. There is a large community in the center of Singapore island which is called Ang-Mo Kio meaning Red-Hair’s Bridge. Singapore Government, knowing the sensitivity of the name, has since changed the official Chinese Name into Hong-Mau Chiao while retains Ang-Mo Kiao as official English Name. Brilliant!


In comparison, Taiwan Government is somehow insensitive to the issue. Using press freedom as a shield, just unleashing the medias and publics to enjoy shouting of “Adoah”. Two Chinese ethnic governments, one brilliant, the other dumb. Oh My God!


http://www.goodweber.com/?terry

Anonymous said...

黃先生, 您的原文並沒有提到保存紅毛橋喔.您說新國政府很用心的誘導當地人去淡忘喔.現在你在你的後繼英文版說新加坡政府認為這個詞不雅,所以把中文名改成”宏茂橋”但在官方洋文裡續用Ang-Mo Kiao. 您說這招絕頂高明.可是我不覺得哦.我以為這樣蠻”假仙”的.要嘛乾脆連英文名也改成”Hon-Mau-Bridge”比較相襯.好處是外國人不會東問西問Ang-Mo-Kiao是什麼碗糕,到時不是”教不來的老狗”市民洩露天机,就是” 誘導成功”的小夥子說不知道.而且一,兩代之後, 紅毛橋和Ang-Mo-Kiao就此永遠在新加坡絕跡.斬草除根這才高明嘛.

還有”Oh My God!”表現不出您的”品味”喔.這會誏那些開口閉口“Adoah”的台灣人誤以為他們很” 有品”哦.

還有, 還有,您甘脆好人做到底,連對岸的另一個遲鈍的華人國家也順便指導一下嘛.人家VHsan說他們叫洋人”鬼老”呢.

以下摘錄您的”有品”原文片斷:

“新加坡政府早察覺到此語不妥,所以帶頭把華文的正式名稱改為「宏茂橋」,以期誘導新加坡人漸漸地淡忘「紅毛橋」。高明吧!比較之下,台灣的政府對此現象似乎很遲鈍,令「有品」的台灣人無語問蒼天。

Anonymous said...

Dear Rosanne: My Taiwanese BF called me ‘big nose’


Originally published in The China Post newspaper in Taipei:

advice column

Dear MeiGui;

My Taiwan boyfriend make a big mistake last night. He absentmindedly called me an “ato-ah” in the Taiwanese language while at my place. I mean, here he is in my own home calling me a “big nose”! I do not call him unkind names like “slant eyes”; not even when we argue. I always call him Tony, his English name, and yet here he is calling me an “ato-ah”. Of course, we both laughed at his remark later, but really, why do Taiwanese people still refer to us big-noses as “big noses”?

Is this a holdover from Japanese colonial rule on Taiwan? Or does size really matter?

I told Tony if he ever calls me that word again, I will tell all my friends. Taiwan should outlaw that word “ato-ah” in my humble big-nose opinion.

–Nose-Job Not Required, Planet Earth

Dear Nose-Job;

You have raised some very interesting issues here, as well as sending me on quite the research expedition.

My first discovery came from my Taiwanese-Mandarin dictionary. It defines “atoh-ah” as “Western Ghost” (洋鬼子) – similar to the offensive and deprecating Hong Kong term GweiLou (鬼佬). However, when I discussed this translation with my colleagues, they were affronted and didn’t believe it to be true. They claimed “ato-ah” was simply an old word for “waiguoren” (外國人). Even after I reminded them that the correct Taiwanese translation for foreigner is “goa-kok-lang”, they continued to insist that “ato-ah” was simply a different, and possibly older, translation of the word for foreigner.

Next, I visited a Taiwanese linguistics expert who told me that the correct translation of this word was “protruding-nose one” or “a-tu-zi” (阿凸仔) in Mandarin. She further informed me that there are other experts who link this term to the Mandarin character for “sharp” – “jian” (尖). I also stumbled across a Taiwanese-to-English interpretation of the term as “hook-nosed one”. At any rate, as with all things related to the Taiwanese language – and culture for that matter — there is no simple answer to this question.

I think “big-nose” is too simple a translation of the term.

Anonymous said...

阿凸仔也民調 by Biko Lang

, translated by Terry Huang, letter to Liberty Times re ADOAH

http://pcofftherails101.blogspot.com/2010/01/by-biko-lang-translated-by-terry-huang_10.html


阿凸仔也民調
◎ Biko Lang

Dear Editor of the Liberty Times

自由廣場的讀者或許還記得筆者去年七月中旬發表有關西方人對「阿凸仔」這個稱呼的負面觀感。其實這篇文章的英文版早在去年五月份台北時報(Taipei Times)發表之後,TNS模範巿場研究公司(TNS Taiwan)就阿凸仔的問題舉辦了一次民調。從2009/5/22到2009/5/24三天期間,超過兩萬五千多位台灣人參與了是項民調。

就因為這份民調相當有趣,筆者特別引述其簡要如下,以饗讀者:
您是否使用「阿凸仔」來通稱西方人士? 45% 說(是),55% 說(不)。
當您發現有些在台西方人士認為「阿凸仔」帶有無禮的負面感覺時,您是否會停止使用? 93% 說(會停用),7% 說(繼續使用)。


值得一提的是,這項民調受訪人數高達25.276位,而受訪人的剖面概況是依目前台灣總人口之性別及年齡層的比例來取樣的,其中年齡層則限定在十三到六十四歲之間。

筆者邀請有興趣的讀者們繼續回應。

(作者本名 Biko Lang, aka, Dan Bloom,為美籍資深新聞從業人員;翻譯者黃大河)
部落格http://www.goodweber.com/?terry

==================
Dear Editor, Taipei Times:
======================
'Adoah' poll inconclusive
==========================

Dear Editor,


Some readers of the Taipei Times may remember an article that
appeared in this newspaper last summer about the use of the local
Hokklo term "adoah" for
Westerners in Taiwan ("'Adoah': A demonstration of familiarity or an
insult?", May 19, 2009, Page 4).

After the article appeared, a poll was taken by a local
marketing firm in Taipei based on the article, and the results are, if
not conclusive, nevertheless very interesting.


The online poll was conducted by "TNS Taiwan", a Taipei marketing
firm, from May 22 to May 24, 2009 with about 25,000 Taiwanese people
participating, and with several
questions being asked.

When those polled were asked "Do you use the term 'adoah' to refer to
Caucasians?" the results were as follows: 45% said
they do use the
term while 55% said they do not use the term.


When people were asked "If you learned that this term of adoah was considered
offensive by some Westerners living in Taiwan, would you
stop using it?" the results were as follows:

93% said they would no
longer use the word "adoah" while 7% said they would continue to use
it.

In the poll, the total sample
size was 25,276 respondents, distributed in terms of age and gender
proportionately to the general population, with ages ranging from 13
to 64, according to the polling firm.

Sincerely,